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#11
Old 02-22-2013, 02:15 AM
techliam
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Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post
Regardless of the inner workings, there are facts we can use to assess whether an organization is trustworthy. I listed those facts, ignoring them would be the stupid thing to do.
How can you know whether or not an organisation is truly trustworthy, if you are looking at it from the outside? There could be so many inner workings that only the elites know about. The facts you used are cool and all, but really that isn't enough to call them trustworthy.

The system needs transparency, not more friggin organisations. Until theres actually transparent behaviour by these organisations, quite frankly, theres not much evidence to suggest they aren't as bad as eachother
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#12
Old 02-22-2013, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techliam View Post
How can you know whether or not an organisation is truly trustworthy, if you are looking at it from the outside? There could be so many inner workings that only the elites know about. The facts you used are cool and all, but really that isn't enough to call them trustworthy.

The system needs transparency, not more friggin organisations. Until theres actually transparent behaviour by these organisations, quite frankly, theres not much evidence to suggest they aren't as bad as eachother
USADA has history and is recognized by the Congress as national antidoping organization for United States Athletes while VADA is couple of years old and started by guy supposedly trying to vindicate himself
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#13
Old 02-22-2013, 02:27 AM
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Usada is an actual Olympic testing organization.. Vada is an alternative like shasta is to coke, regardless trusting an "anti-doping" organization ran by victor Conte is like trusting a murderer on trial defended by oj simpson

The only reason usada is constantly bashes, and vada conspicuous praise all the time, is because maxboxing and all these other writers that are top rank jock sniffers look for any reason to **** on golden boy and Al Haymon fighters..
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#14
Old 02-22-2013, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post
VADA automatically notifies the commission when a fighter tests positive for PEDs, that's the reason why Golden Boy stopped using them and went with USADA who have done some shady things. They didn't notify the commission when Morales tested positive, instead they kept taking samples from him until he tested negative. They tested Quillin and Winky but then two days later abandoned the testing at Golden Boy's request and destroyed the samples when they're supposed to keep them for 6 years.

VADA caught Peterson and Berto who works with Conte (there goes the conspiracy theory).

All in all, VADA is a much more trustworthy organization than USADA.
They stopped working with VADA because they DIDN'T TELL the promoter OR the Las Vegas Commission until it was too late to save the show. In other words, they sat on the information that Peterson tested positive for weeks, which then cost Golden Boy a lot of money in cancelling that event because the cancellation insurance does not cover financial losses due to a fighter testing positive for a banned substance. If they would have notified all parties the moment Peterson tested positive, the show would have likely been saved. Nobody wanted to face Khan on less than two weeks notice.
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#15
Old 02-22-2013, 02:40 AM
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Is this a joke? USADA = non-profit, been in the field of testing for like 10 years, providing testing for thousands of athletes, pursued and brought down some of the most well-organized, well-funded cheats across a variety of sports. Olympics = $50 billion dollar industry, like USADA is going to risk their reputation and everything they've accomplished to protect who? Morales? GBP? What's the motive again?
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#16
Old 02-22-2013, 02:54 AM
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If GBP had all of their terms about testing disclosure made public so we could understand all the mechanics of their agreement with USADA I would trust them more due to their history.

VADA in fairness have a strong history in the 2 guys they have busted, they just don't have the pedigree of USADA.

At the moment, I would want both involved
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#17
Old 02-22-2013, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGPOPPAPUMP View Post
They stopped working with VADA because they DIDN'T TELL the promoter OR the Las Vegas Commission until it was too late to save the show. In other words, they sat on the information that Peterson tested positive for weeks, which then cost Golden Boy a lot of money in cancelling that event because the cancellation insurance does not cover financial losses due to a fighter testing positive for a banned substance. If they would have notified all parties the moment Peterson tested positive, the show would have likely been saved. Nobody wanted to face Khan on less than two weeks notice.
VADA only followed standard WADA protocol, which USADA is also supposed to follow. An athlete has the right to to test the B sample in order to confirm the positive result before he officially becomes guilty and it's made public to anyone. VADA even gave Golden Boy the option to sign a contract that would reveal to them the result of the A sample immediately without testing the B sample, but Golden Boy never signed it. Meanwhile, USADA just allowed Morales on two different occasions to have both the A and B samples test positive before informing the comission.

But you're right that they were angry for being told so late, not because they told the commission, but that was their own damn fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzz View Post
Usada is an actual Olympic testing organization.. Vada is an alternative like shasta is to coke, regardless trusting an "anti-doping" organization ran by victor Conte is like trusting a murderer on trial defended by oj simpson

The only reason usada is constantly bashes, and vada conspicuous praise all the time, is because maxboxing and all these other writers that are top rank jock sniffers look for any reason to **** on golden boy and Al Haymon fighters..
Margaret Goodman MD | President/Board Chairman
Dr. Edwin "Flip" Homansky | Vice-President/Board
Robert Cantu, MD | Board
Deborah K. Stout | Board
Angela Silva, DC | Secretary / Treasurer
Ryan Connolly | Chief Legal Counsel / Client Relations
Dr. Ron Kamm
Sharon R. Kamm, PSY.D.
http://www.vada-testing.org/index.ph...=50&Itemid=112

Nope, don't see Conte listed anywhere.

Last edited by DoktorSleepless; 02-22-2013 at 03:10 AM.
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#18
Old 02-22-2013, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chav View Post
If GBP had all of their terms about testing disclosure made public so we could understand all the mechanics of their agreement with USADA I would trust them more due to their history.

VADA in fairness have a strong history in the 2 guys they have busted, they just don't have the pedigree of USADA.

At the moment, I would want both involved
100%
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#19
Old 02-22-2013, 03:11 AM
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Yeah, but the Morales example is problematic because it involved Clen. Even WADA struggled with similar positives like a year+ before the Morales situation and ultimately cleared athletes. Let's stop pretending like it's USADA's MO to keep testing until a negative appears, that's idiotic to even suggest that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoktorSleepless View Post
VADA only followed standard WADA protocol, which USADA is also supposed to follow. An athlete has the right to to test the B sample in order to confirm the positive result before he officially becomes guilty and it's made public. VADA even gave Golden Boy the option to sign a contract that would reveal to them the result of the A sample immediately without testing the B sample, but Golden Boy never signed it. Meanwhile, USADA just allowed Morales on two different occasions to have both the A and B samples test positive before informing the comission.

But you're right that they were angry for being told so late, not because they told the commission, but that was their own damn fault.


Margaret Goodman MD | President/Board Chairman
Dr. Edwin "Flip" Homansky | Vice-President/Board
Robert Cantu, MD | Board
Deborah K. Stout | Board
Angela Silva, DC | Secretary / Treasurer
Ryan Connolly | Chief Legal Counsel / Client Relations
Dr. Ron Kamm
Sharon R. Kamm, PSY.D.
http://www.vada-testing.org/index.ph...=50&Itemid=112

Nope, don't see Conte listed anywhere.
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#20
Old 02-22-2013, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josenoway View Post
Yeah, but the Morales example is problematic because it involved Clen. Even WADA struggled with similar positives like a year+ before the Morales situation and ultimately cleared athletes. Let's stop pretending like it's USADA's MO to keep testing until a negative appears, that's idiotic to even suggest that.
It shouldn't matter. USADA should have given the results to the commission after the first B sample was tested and let commission decide. USADA shouldn't decide for themselves if Morales is guilty before informing the commission.

Also, it seems USADA's only obligation is to Golden Boy. Nowhere in the USADA contracts does it even mention the athletic commissions.
http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ement-part-one
Quote:
Perhaps it is found in the fact that in no clause, rule or any other place found in several Master Agreement contracts obtained by Maxboxing.com, between Golden Boy Promotions and the United States Anti-Doping Agency regarding anti-doping testing for their fighters are the words ***8220;State Athletic Commission***8221; used. No variation of those words is used. It would appear, after careful perusal of these varied versions of the same Master Agreement, that this alliance between Golden Boy and USADA potentially takes the commission completely out of the loop.

Last edited by DoktorSleepless; 02-22-2013 at 03:29 AM.
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