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#11
Old 02-16-2013, 04:12 PM
House of Stone
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prime ali beats prime joe
but only a prime ali ... ie the williams,tyrell,patterson version of ali takes the best version of Joe.

The comeback version of Ali looses to the best joe louis.
But yeah since we are talking about prime, Ali wins.
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#12
Old 02-16-2013, 07:17 PM
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even the average versions of ali i see beating him (alot closer though.) Everything is in alis favour and can anyone here picture louis getting to ali and knocking him out? jus picture it. Ali would have to stay alert and focused but he always did and would double in this fight. Easy fight for ali and can anyone picture louis winning by points?? no way
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#13
Old 02-16-2013, 09:23 PM
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I don't subscribe to Ali being an invincible fighter. I don't believe anyone is quite that. But I think this fight would be 50/50.

Louis did give an outline of how he would deal with an Ali type of fighter, and to his credit, it was pulled off by much lesser fighters like Cooper and Chuvalo.

His plan was to stalk him to the ropes and work his body until he begins to drop his hands, then hurt him upstairs. Seeing Cooper's success in doing this, I don't doubt he was able. But probable? Different story.

50/50

I think Louis would be the favourite in the rematch.
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#14
Old 02-17-2013, 03:57 PM
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Eddie Futch always said that Joe Louis would have beaten Ali easily. And he watched Louis a lot, grew up watching him, and trained the two guys that gave Ali his hardest fights (Frazier and Norton).
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#15
Old 02-18-2013, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
Eddie Futch always said that Joe Louis would have beaten Ali easily. And he watched Louis a lot, grew up watching him, and trained the two guys that gave Ali his hardest fights (Frazier and Norton).

I understand Futch's perspective. But we are talking about the 1973 Ali who had his jaw broken by Norton and the 1975 Ali (224Lbs 33 years old) who fought Frazier in the Thrilla in Manilla.......

I don't recall if Futch trained Norton for Ali 3 in 1976.

Training a fighter to beat 70s Ali is a little different from training a fighter to meet the 1966 Ali who met Williams.

Prime Louis may have had a good shot against various versions of 70s Ali. But even then Louis wouldn't have beaten Ali 'easily'.
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#16
Old 02-18-2013, 11:32 AM
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I don't believe that he was referring to 'just' the 1970s version of Ali. Also, you may forget, when Ali was supposedly at his best, in the 1960s, NOBODY was calling him "The Greatest", other than himself. While he was fast and had great reflexes, he was far from a complete fighter. Lots of wasted energy and motion.
Be that as it may, I think that the 'prime' version of Ali would have troubled Louis with his movement, much like Conn. Unlike Conn, Ali did not have, at that point in time, much experience with top fighters (an aged, over the hill Liston not withstanding). Louis would have been too much for him, winning a clear decision with at least one knockdown or possibly stopping Ali.....Yeah, yeah I know great chin and all, but Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper dropped him- Cooper hurt him bad- and that is the time frame we are discussing, and Louis was a much better puncher than anybody Ali ever fought. (In terms of handspeed and his ability to put punches together)
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#17
Old 02-18-2013, 11:55 AM
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I'll say this:

I don't believe that anybody other than a prime Louis could beat a prime Ali, AND I don't believe that anybody other than a prime Ali could beat a prime Louis (no, Louis was not in his prime yet when he fought Herr Maxie).


If they fight 10 times, I'll take Ali to win 6, Louis to win 3, and 1 draw.

Without a doubt the toughest H2H matchup for BOTH fighters.
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#18
Old 02-18-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panamaniac View Post
Yes. Based on Conn's dominance against Louis before being knocked out and Ali's victories over Liston and Foreman, an Ali victory over Louis is a plausible proposition.
It's never a valid excuse, but I'm sure you're aware that Louis did not train for the Conn fight. At all. That doesn't mean that Louis would have had an easier fight had he trained... we have to take fights as they are... but it's worth slight consideration. Louis was superior to Liston and Foreman in every department except for one punch power.
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#19
Old 02-18-2013, 12:06 PM
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Have to echo the sentiments of Ray who said that if Conn was such a handfull for Louis then Ali would just be too much. It even took Louis 8 rounds the second time when he certainly wouldn't have underestimated the light heavyweight..

What people always forget when they talk about Louis fighting like a Joe Frazier is that Frazier was the type of fighter that was willing to take a whole lot of punishment to get inside. If you try to close the distance without that mentality and approach (like Louis probably would) Ali will give you all kinds of strategic problems.

Last edited by res; 02-18-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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#20
Old 02-18-2013, 08:21 PM
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if that ali got sloppy (doubtful) he could get knocked down by a quick left hook from louis if he started throwing combinations at him. Even though ali had great head movement he still got caught by left hooks. But in this fight ali would have alot of respect for louis's punching and ali would have no problem dancing and playing it safe coz louis wouldnt be able to corner him. If he got lucky with a left hook, ali would get up, would have time to shake it off and dance his way to a descision. And this particular ali, i think was alot more alert after having been knocked down by cooper n banks (again both left hooks.) Ali always brought is A game when facing the top guys, ali wins by a landslide
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