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#31
Old 02-08-2013, 10:35 AM
APPONO ASTOS
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Originally Posted by el*** View Post
This was pre roid pac. He fought both guerro and pac in the same week. This was pac at 135 pre roids.

Pac went up to 147 to fight skeleton DLH and his power wasnt that great just his speed. Landed at will forever and DLH never went down but they had to stop it because he couldnt land back and was a skeleton.

Then all of a sudden he was hurting all of this guys with every punch, hatton, cotto, margo ect. Thats when he started roiding right after DLH.
but don't people say that pac started roiding when he hooked up with ariza? and pac first hooked up with ariza for the david diaz fight.

plus pac has only had 3 KOs/stoppage wins after moving up from 135...

Last edited by APPONO ASTOS; 02-08-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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#32
Old 02-08-2013, 10:42 AM
Ray Corso
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My guess is that Manny was sparring with speed and angles at 35 and Robert may have been trying to work some power shots off of a speed! Not knowing what work was being done in the sessions makes this a guessing game. The sparring partner isn't going to know what their working on all the time especially if the work is an "open session" (not light punching)!
I can see Roberts punches being "placed" and having a different response to Mannys speed and less acuracy!!
Personally neither one is a hard puncher anyways, Manny uses high work rate to get his opponents ready to get hit with something they don't see! Any well placed shot can hurt anyone. Juan slowed that with Manny rushing in off two feints and he got caught! Chess with heavy consequences! Ray.
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#33
Old 02-08-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
My guess is that Manny was sparring with speed and angles at 35 and Robert may have been trying to work some power shots off of a speed! Not knowing what work was being done in the sessions makes this a guessing game. The sparring partner isn't going to know what their working on all the time especially if the work is an "open session" (not light punching)!
I can see Roberts punches being "placed" and having a different response to Mannys speed and less acuracy!!
Personally neither one is a hard puncher anyways, Manny uses high work rate to get his opponents ready to get hit with something they don't see! Any well placed shot can hurt anyone. Juan slowed that with Manny rushing in off two feints and he got caught! Chess with heavy consequences! Ray.
Sorry Ray but that's absurd. Manny is a HUGE puncher when you consider the man came from 106lbs to where he is now knocking out guys like Hatton. Mosley who has been in there with many greats said Pac hits harder than anyone he's ever been in the ring with, that alone speaks for itself.

Manny is one of the hardest punchers lb for lb when you consider his size, what weight he came from and how he's been able to maintain that power going up in weight.

JMM is also a huge puncher, always has been and I don't get why people think he isn't. Now Guerrero I never thought of as a huge puncher but I will take someone's opinion that was actually in there with them to tell me the truth.
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#34
Old 02-08-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuauhtémoc1520 View Post
I'm glad people here know more than a guy who actually sparred both Guerrero and Pac...lol

Man, everyone is an expert on the internet. The reality is, the reason Pac has such devastating power KO's is because of his speed. The punches you don't see coming are the one's that KO you.

Pac is incredibly fast, much faster than Guerrero. Guerrero might hit harder with one shot, he just doesn't have the blinding speed of foot movement to hit guys when they don't see it.

I think most don't understand punching power and how it can be affected by speed and timing.
Um, yeah, power is generated by speed. So one shot from Pac will hurt more because its faster. You're just proving how ridiculous it is to say Guerrero hits harder if you say its because of Pac's speed. Fighters say stupid stuff all the time. If we took everything boxers say about other boxers as the truth just because they were in the ring with them, we'd have a LONG, LONG list of statements that make no sense next to each other.
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#35
Old 02-08-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bojangles1987 View Post
Um, yeah, power is generated by speed. So one shot from Pac will hurt more because its faster. You're just proving how ridiculous it is to say Guerrero hits harder if you say its because of Pac's speed. Fighters say stupid stuff all the time. If we took everything boxers say about other boxers as the truth just because they were in the ring with them, we'd have a LONG, LONG list of statements that make no sense next to each other.
First off I didn't say power is generated by speed. I said that the reason Pac knocked out guys so brutally is because his speed allowed him to land shots guys didn't see.

I could line up Guerrero and Pac and test them let's say on that sports science show and have them hit a machine that measures their power. Let's say for the sake of argument that Guerrero generates more raw power. It doesn't mean that he's going to get the types of KO's that Pac has gotten.

There's been an argument in boxing about power for a very long time. Is it speed? Is it something your born with?

Fernando Vargas wasn't very fast, at least not gifted fast yet his shots were a thudding and powerful. I don't think that speed=power because then Leonard or Whitaker should have been the hardest punchers lb4lb but they weren't.

I believe him when he says that Guerrero hits harder because he's been in there with both of them. That doesn't mean Guerrero is better than Pac or will get the spectacular KO's pac has had.
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#36
Old 02-08-2013, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Ducketts View Post
Margarito and Guerrero can't punch. When they face real fighters who can box, they can't punch.
Just like Mayweather.....unless the guy is looking away.
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#37
Old 02-08-2013, 04:53 PM
Ray Corso
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Pac is not a HUGE puncher! He is a high rate guy who can catch a fighter off balance and he works hard to do just that. He has about 60% stop rate in his career which is good but noy HUGE. He has no KO since 09 (I think) and maybe has 2 in his last 10 bouts! Knocking out Hatton is no big event Hatton will run right into shots just as Manny did with Juan!
If Pac could settle down and sit down on his shots after working 7 to 9 rounds of high rate shots I think he could improve his power with technique. However his normal assault style doesn't lend to throwing power! Ray
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