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#1
Old 02-04-2013, 11:46 AM
adamdoyle
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Default Pacquaio an ATG WW.....really?

Can i start by saying I do not dislike Manny Pacquiao. I dislike stupid fans that will say anything to make their favorite fighter seem superior regardless if its true or not.

Now that that's out of the way...... What defines an all time great? Speed and Power? NO in fact these are 2 qualities that are not needed. A great chin? No, you do not need a good chin if you don't get hit

So what your left with is the fundamentals! Defense, Punching Technique, Footwork, Timing and keen judgement in distance.

Am I saying all ATG's must have these qualities? Sadly...No

Great fighter's so often lack one or more of these that they can be beaten by a good chin or speed. This usually see the Powerful or fast fighter gain alot of hype and recognition(Would Garcia matter if he UD'd Khan?)

But it's the fighters without these qualities that are truly great, that even when they physically decline are better than most(Hopkins)

So what I want to know what separates Pacquaio from Robert Guerrero(No disrepect meant) ? Guerrero started 122 and skipped 140 like Pacquiao skipped 135 and 140 and is now 147. Pacquiao belt at 150 is fake so there closer in weightclasses than it seems. Yet no one cares that Guerrero was a 122 fighter once.

He never needed any catchweights as far as I know. And regarding an earlier thread, Guerrero probably beats ODLH Pac fought and he beats Margo at 150 , He beats Juan Manuel at 143 and Cotto 145. I'd even say he beats them all at 147:Prime ,bar Marquez. Notice who is my favorite fighter in my sig and I'm saying that.

To me pacquaio is like 50 cent. 118 to 126 (First few albums) he was great, really great even with losses, but now he fights CW's(50's pop albums) and its fake. It may be entertaining to some....but it's fake.

I'd like to hear people thoughts on this. Im not trying to prove something. It's just a taught i had. Isn't pacquiao and amazing entertainer rather than an amazing fighter? I just hope no one see this as hating.
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#2
Old 02-04-2013, 11:47 AM
shade darkar
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i dont see it as he is an ATG in a certain division, just see him as an ATG full stop! i dont think people can argue with that.
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#3
Old 02-04-2013, 11:50 AM
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lets be real here i may say things about pac man but he is an all time great without a doubt even if he loses 6 more fights in a row its not even debatable the guy is a legend lets not be ridiculous give the man his due
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#4
Old 02-04-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamdoyle View Post
Can i start by saying I do not dislike Manny Pacquiao. I dislike stupid fans that will say anything to make their favorite fighter seem superior regardless if its true or not.

Now that that's out of the way...... What defines an all time great? Speed and Power? NO in fact these are 2 qualities that are not needed. A great chin? No, you do not need a good chin if you don't get hit

So what your left with is the fundamentals! Defense, Punching Technique, Footwork, Timing and keen judgement in distance.

Am I saying all ATG's must have these qualities? Sadly...No

Great fighter's so often lack one or more of these that they can be beaten by a good chin or speed. This usually see the Powerful or fast fighter gain alot of hype and recognition(Would Garcia matter if he UD'd Khan?)

But it's the fighters without these qualities that are truly great, that even when they physically decline are better than most(Hopkins)

So what I want to know what separates Pacquaio from Robert Guerrero(No disrepect meant) ? Guerrero started 122 and skipped 140 like Pacquiao skipped 135 and 140 and is now 147. Pacquiao belt at 150 is fake so there closer in weightclasses than it seems. Yet no one cares that Guerrero was a 122 fighter once.

He never needed any catchweights as far as I know. And regarding an earlier thread, Guerrero probably beats ODLH Pac fought and he beats Margo at 150 , He beats Juan Manuel at 143 and Cotto 145. I'd even say he beats them all at 147:Prime ,bar Marquez. Notice who is my favorite fighter in my sig and I'm saying that.

To me pacquaio is like 50 cent. 118 to 126 (First few albums) he was great, really great even with losses, but now he fights CW's(50's pop albums) and its fake. It may be entertaining to some....but it's fake.

I'd like to hear people thoughts on this. Im not trying to prove something. It's just a taught i had. Isn't pacquiao and amazing entertainer rather than an amazing fighter? I just hope no one see this as hating.
Any boxing fans knows Guererro is like new generation of Margarito and no way near Pac (style wise). As much as I hate Margacheato, the SIZE and POWER of Margarito will make Guererro kneel down...
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#5
Old 02-04-2013, 11:57 AM
APPONO ASTOS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamdoyle View Post
So what I want to know what separates Pacquaio from Robert Guerrero(No disrepect meant) ? Guerrero started 122 and skipped 140 like Pacquiao skipped 135 and 140 and is now 147. Pacquiao belt at 150 is fake so there closer in weightclasses than it seems. Yet no one cares that Guerrero was a 122 fighter once.
has guerrero won 7 world titles in 7 weight divisons though? no he has only won 2 world titles in 2 weight divisions...has he won 4 lineal titles in 4 weight divisions? no not even one lineal title...can guerrero say he has competed against other legendary fighters like barrera, morales, marquez, etc.? not really...has guerrero been named fighter of the year multiple years and named fighter of the decade by any organization? nope.... guerrero isn't even close to having the same legendary career as pacquiao.....

so please don't compare guerrero and pacquiao.........

Last edited by APPONO ASTOS; 02-04-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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#6
Old 02-04-2013, 12:01 PM
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What defines an ATG?

His wins
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#7
Old 02-04-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatiKid View Post
lets be real here i may say things about pac man but he is an all time great without a doubt even if he loses 6 more fights in a row its not even debatable the guy is a legend lets not be ridiculous give the man his due
/end thread

Love him or hate him, Pac is an ATG, there's no debating in that.
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#8
Old 02-04-2013, 12:06 PM
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Really simple Pacman is most definitely an atg. But that's over the span if his entire career. Ts said atg welterweight. I'd argue he is not an atg welterweight.
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#9
Old 02-04-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shade darkar View Post
i dont see it as he is an ATG in a certain division, just see him as an ATG full stop! i dont think people can argue with that.
This. He's really not an ATG in any one weight class period, though I increasingly see a case at 130 for one if there is one. He never dominated any class for that long. His best weight looked like it might have been 140 but, again, one fight. That was where his skill set and physical talent seemed to gel perfectly.
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#10
Old 02-04-2013, 12:20 PM
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Pac is an ATG... really!!!
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