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View Poll Results: Better Resume?
Donaire 76 60.80%
Mares 49 39.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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#101
Old 02-02-2013, 01:39 PM
JonoYoungP4P
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#102
Old 02-02-2013, 01:52 PM
deejd
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I doubt he was a heavy favorite. It was his first fight at 130, yet he still came in out of shape. Most fighters lose effectiveness in their 3rd class. You're right Hopkins is a bad comparison, a better one is: "Tarver's win over RJJ is overrated. Danny Green did it twice as fast".

SA fighters fight on the SA circuit because that's where their only opportunities are. This "let them eat cake" attitude really bugs me, when will people realize that not every stay at home titlist is a Felix Sturm? What would you suggest they do? It's extra inappropriate to pin this on Mathebula, who fought the only 2 recent p4p rated super bantams in their hometown/state, for little money. I couldn't track down the exact figure, but iirc what Jeff got from HBO for Donaire was pathetic, undercard opponent money. The bulk of his money came from SA tv rights, still meager. But it goes back to the original point, opportunities.
Caballero was a 13-1 favorite over Litzau. Comparing Tarver to Mathebula is still a terrible comparison. Clearly, you believe South African fighters are legit which lets me know there's a bias involved.

If Mathebula was that good, he'd get plenty opportunities. You think Argentina is the place to be for fights? No; but Martinez, Lucas Matthysse, Maidana, those guys are legit so they get offered fights in the states. Nothing about Mathebula screams world-beater, let alone the fact that the guy is near 34.
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#103
Old 02-02-2013, 02:12 PM
HeroBando
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Caballero was a 13-1 favorite over Litzau. Comparing Tarver to Mathebula is still a terrible comparison. Clearly, you believe South African fighters are legit which lets me know there's a bias involved.

If Mathebula was that good, he'd get plenty opportunities. You think Argentina is the place to be for fights? No; but Martinez, Lucas Matthysse, Maidana, those guys are legit so they get offered fights in the states. Nothing about Mathebula screams world-beater, let alone the fact that the guy is near 34.
OK I'm shocked at those odds. That couldn't have been fight night, cause he was struggling to get down to 130. Either way Caballero was 2 divisions and about 100 p4p spots behind where he was vs Mathebula. He wasn't even top 5 at 126, unranked at 130. He was #1 at 122, 2 titles, Ring p4p. Do you understand the difference?

I don't give a sh1t about SA fighters, only the principle behind it. Of course not everyone gets the same opportunities. Matthysse doesn't say much:

1. Fights is a hot division, super tv friendly style. Mathebula style awkward. HBO never televises sub feather unless it's Donaire.
2. Lucas appeals to the Spanish speaking fanbase, which is better than nothing
3. Despite all this he's either getting stiffed on the cards, or avoided by the money guys, with much help from the guys that promote both.

Nobody said Jeff is elite, only someone that'd be beating a ton of guys on showtime and azteca if he was Pedro Martinez from Oxnard or Los Mochis.
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#104
Old 02-02-2013, 02:20 PM
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OK I'm shocked at those odds. That couldn't have been fight night, cause he was struggling to get down to 130. Either way Caballero was 2 divisions and about 100 p4p spots behind where he was vs Mathebula. He wasn't even top 5 at 126, unranked at 130. He was #1 at 122, 2 titles, Ring p4p. Do you understand the difference?

I don't give a sh1t about SA fighters, only the principle behind it. Of course not everyone gets the same opportunities. Matthysse doesn't say much:

1. Fights is a hot division, super tv friendly style. Mathebula style awkward. HBO never televises sub feather unless it's Donaire.
2. Lucas appeals to the Spanish speaking fanbase, which is better than nothing
3. Despite all this he's either getting stiffed on the cards, or avoided by the money guys, with much help from the guys that promote both.

Nobody said Jeff is elite, only someone that'd be beating a ton of guys on showtime and azteca if he was Pedro Martinez from Oxnard or Los Mochis.
You still made terrible comparisons and it doesn't help Mathebula's argument considering he still lost the fight and continued fighting nobodies in SA. Ali Funeka lost to Nate Campbell but put on a good showing; he also was extremely tall for the weight class, awkward style, and nobody could understand a lick of what he was saying; but he was rewarded with two more HBO spots. Keep defending the Mathebula fight, it's not a good look compared to what Mares has done over the last two years in comparison.

If Mathebula was that good, he'd get the opportunities.
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#105
Old 02-02-2013, 02:24 PM
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OK I'm shocked at those odds. That couldn't have been fight night
http://www.boxingscene.com/compubox-...-litzau--33311

As high as a 15-1 favorite, here... look up The Ring article "Litzau upsets Caballero".
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#106
Old 02-02-2013, 02:51 PM
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You still made terrible comparisons and it doesn't help Mathebula's argument considering he still lost the fight and continued fighting nobodies in SA. Ali Funeka lost to Nate Campbell but put on a good showing; he also was extremely tall for the weight class, awkward style, and nobody could understand a lick of what he was saying; but he was rewarded with two more HBO spots. Keep defending the Mathebula fight, it's not a good look compared to what Mares has done over the last two years in comparison.

If Mathebula was that good, he'd get the opportunities.
The comparison came in response to your dismissal of Jeff's effort vs Caballero cause Litzau matched it years later, 2 division higher. Not perfect, but does fine to show the ridiculousness of your point.

Ali Funeka fought at LW which gets way more tv play, and played second fiddle each time he was on. He had so much leverage he couldn't say no when Guzman came in 9 lbs over lol. Did Jeff not put on a good showing vs Caballero and Donaire?

Again, what more is he supposed to do? Are there some fight offers in the US he passed on? Did he pass on promotional offers from TR/GBP, what?
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#107
Old 02-02-2013, 03:10 PM
deejd
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The comparison came in response to your dismissal of Jeff's effort vs Caballero cause Litzau matched it years later, 2 division higher. Not perfect, but does fine to show the ridiculousness of your point.

Ali Funeka fought at LW which gets way more tv play, and played second fiddle each time he was on. He had so much leverage he couldn't say no when Guzman came in 9 lbs over lol. Did Jeff not put on a good showing vs Caballero and Donaire?

Again, what more is he supposed to do? Are there some fight offers in the US he passed on? Did he pass on promotional offers from TR/GBP, what?
Litzau didn't match Methabula's effort, he eclipsed it; as far as it being ridiculous, no... it's not. Mathebula still lost.

Let me find out that Campbell was a draw. Now I've heard it all. I can't take you seriously.
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#108
Old 02-02-2013, 03:21 PM
HeroBando
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Litzau didn't match Methabula's effort, he eclipsed it; as far as it being ridiculous, no... it's not. Mathebula still lost.

Let me find out that Campbell was a draw. Now I've heard it all. I can't take you seriously.
You haven't seen Mathebula Caba, have you? He should have beaten #1 rated top 10 p4p unified titlist in his hometown. That's one of the best results anyone has had sub feather in years.

Who said Campbell was a draw? Are you denying he was the a side though? Premium networks consistently showed title bouts at LW.
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#109
Old 02-02-2013, 05:58 PM
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donaire has the better resume
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#110
Old 02-02-2013, 10:56 PM
HeroBando
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You know, I hadn't seen the Mathebula/Caballero fight before because I couldn't find it. I went by what other people had said about it. I just found it on youtube today and it was it was pretty amazing. An honest to god argument can be made that Mathebula won every single round. Even the Panamanian commentators thought Mathebula won. I personally only gave Caballero the last two rounds when both were tired. There were some competitive rounds that could go either way, but I thought Mathebula edged those rounds too.

It was actually a pretty fun fight and worth watching.
Thanks for posting that. I streamed it live, been trying to track it down for a while. I scored it 8-4 both times, coulda been wider for Jeff. I remember him swarming and frustrating the sh1t out of Caba, but on rewatch he sure dealt out some punishment.
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