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#21
Old 01-28-2013, 02:41 PM
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did you really bite into those bait threads? that dude would not know who kid Gavilan, Jose Napoles or the real kid chocolate were.


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#22
Old 01-28-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaglerSteelChin View Post
Baseball and Boxing started to become popular in Cuba in the late 1800's. However, there were some racial schism around black cubans (african heritiage) and White Cubans (spanaird descent). The govt put a stop in sanctioning boxing around the 1910's, than they reinstated the sport around the 1920's.

There were many notable bouts in Havana like Johnson-Willard that took place in the early 1900's. Syndicates did influence the sport and there was corruption.

As for Champions i already mentioned like six guys who were champ before Castro took over. There is a book by Jon Ducan that covers a lot of this history.
It's amazing how successful Cuba was for such a tiny little country, even before the twentieth century. Castro brought everything to a screeching halt, although even he brought some worthwhile changes. Cuba has often been cited as having the most doctors per-capita in the entire world. In the 1990s, Cuba was the first country to develop a meningitis B vaccine. She is praised worldwide for her healthcare system. All this from an impoverished third world country.
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#23
Old 01-28-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by HeroBando View Post
Good stuff. Don't understand the complaining, the other thread claims Cubans are failures as pros, clearly not the case. One key point is that most of these guys are still prospects by pro standards, most have less than 20 bouts/4 years of pro XP. However they're generally moved faster, so people forget how green they are as pros.

A couple of omissions from your list: Dorticos, Sullivan Barrera (what's going on? inactive for 1 yr), Collado, Luis Garcia.
You're right. Even guys like Gamboa and Rigondeaux would usually only be prospects, with the amount of fights they had before becoming champions. Some of the others are certainly still in the prospect phase. There should be a couple of other Cuban beltholders within the next few years.

Thanks for the names. For some reason, Boxrec omitted certain fighters. Despaigne and Mike Perez weren't on their lists. I added them myself.
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#24
Old 01-28-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 1PunchKOPOW! View Post
did you really bite into those bait threads? that dude would not know who kid Gavilan, Jose Napoles or the real kid chocolate were.
Of course I did. And of course he wouldn't.
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#25
Old 01-28-2013, 02:59 PM
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To be fair, most of the people who are being critical of Rigo are too new to boxing and simple-minded to understand the special circumstances faced by Cuban fighters. You'd be better off trying to teach your dog a pull counter than trying to get the tards to learn anything about boxing.
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#26
Old 01-28-2013, 03:02 PM
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I've been saying this for a while.......if Cuba was getting welfare like PR gets off the US, it would be PR/Mex vs Cuba. I like Cuban boxers a lot but I can see where they're coming from with them saying some of them being grown men picking on little kids. Either way a lot of them are very skillful and can fight regardless whether toe to toe or just box. Some Cuban fans have gone a bit fanatical on here but every other flag does it as well.
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#27
Old 01-28-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic View Post
I've been saying this for a while.......if Cuba was getting welfare like PR gets off the US, it would be PR/Mex vs Cuba. I like Cuban boxers a lot but I can see where they're coming from with them saying some of them being grown men picking on little kids. Either way a lot of them are very skillful and can fight regardless whether toe to toe or just box. Some Cuban fans have gone a bit fanatical on here but every other flag does it as well.
I've heard that more than once. It's essentially a myth. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but it's way overstated. Perhaps the worst (and only blatant) example I'm aware of this happening was when Mario Kindelan (32 years old) beat Amir Khan (17) for the 2004 lightweight gold medal. People have tried to discredit Teofilo Stevenson with the same argument, but Stevenson was two years younger than Duane Bobick, when he beat Duane for his first gold medal. Teofilo was of comparable age to the next two men he beat for his subsequent Olympic titles. Robeisy Ramirez (18 years old) won a gold medal at the 2012 Games. Cubans don't need an age or experience advantage. If misinformation is spread long enough, people start to believe and repeat it.

Last edited by CubanGuyNYC; 01-28-2013 at 03:26 PM.
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#28
Old 01-28-2013, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CubanGuyNYC View Post
The following list of Cubans currently in pro boxing, by weight class, comes from Boxrec, so feel free to check my stated facts:

Minimum Weight - None
Light Flyweight - None
Flyweight - None
Super Flyweight - (One) Leonardo Sanchez (19 years old) 2-1-0
Bantamweight - (One) Yan Barthelemy 12-3
Super Bantamweight - (Three) Guillermo Rigondeaux, Yoandris Salinas 20-0-1, Hairon Socarras (19 years old) 6-0-1
Featherweight - (Two) Luis Franco 11-1 (fighting Billy Dib for his belt on March 1), Jessy Cruz 8-5-1
Super Featherweight - (Four) Including Yuriorkis Gamboa and Rances Barthelemy 18-0
Lightweight - (Seven) Including Richard Abril, Angelo Santana 14-0 (watch out for this kid), and Yoelvis Gamboa (Yuri***8217;s brother) 8-1
Light Welterweight- (One) Michael Santander 3-0 (23 years old)
Welterweight- (Three) Yordenis Ugas 13-1, (and two others, one 36 and the other 40)
Light Middleweight- (Six) Erislandy Lara, Yudel Johnson (13-1), Inocente Fiz 15-0, Leosvy Mayedo 3-0 (and two others 40 and older)
Middleweight - (Three) None really worth noting, unless you count ***8220;Kid Chocolate,***8221; Peter Quillin, which would make four.
Super Middleweight - (One) Julio Acosta 5-1 (38 years old)
Light Heavyweight - (Four) Umberto Savigne 10-1 (34 years old) Miguel Velozo 15-1 (39 years old), Vilier Quinonez 5-0 ,Yordanis Despaigne 9-2
Cruiserweight- (Four) Yoan Pablo Hernandez, Pedro Rodriguez 13-1, Yasmany Consuegra 10-0, Yenisei Gonzalez 10-0
Heavyweight - (Nine) Odlanier Solis, Mike Perez 18-0, Juan Carlos Gomez (39) 51-3, Luis Ortiz 19-0, Glendy Hernandez, 9-0 and four others.


Out of fifty named Cuban boxers on this list, there are six present or past champions: Gamboa, Rigo, Abril, Quillin, Gomez and Yoan Pablo Hernandez. Lara is top-ten. Many of the men on this list are either too young or inexperienced to have made a splash yet, or too old to ever make an impact. Even men like Gamboa, Rigo and Lara don***8217;t have many fights, because they haven***8217;t been free very long. Even a woeful underachiever like Solis has been ranked top-ten in the past. Guys like Angelo Santana aren***8217;t very known yet, but they will be. Angelo is a bad young motherfucker.

Fifty professional fighters spread throughout all categories***8230;. Boxrec lists 89 Filipinos in the Super Bantamweight division alone! Mexicans? 239!! Even Puerto Rico, with her tiny population, boasts 25 fighters at 122! For a people that have been shut out of pro boxing for over a half-century, and only number about 1.6 million in the United States, Cubans have done pretty well. Certain ignoramuses on this site want to make themselves feel good by putting down Cuban fighters. God only knows how many Cuban champs there***8217;d be if we had a population of 115 million. Truth always wins in the end.
Indeed! Great post in response to the complete and utter nonsense that racist fool attempted to argue yesterday!!
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#29
Old 01-28-2013, 04:54 PM
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Indeed! Great post in response to the complete and utter nonsense that racist fool attempted to argue yesterday!!
Thank you.

Have you noticed how I put up a thread containing nothing but verifiable facts and reasoned opinion, and the trolls scatter like roaches when the lights come on? Where are they now? Why aren't they in here discrediting my posts with solid opinions of their own? Because they have none, that's why. All they have is hate and wishful thinking. It all pales before the truth.
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#30
Old 01-28-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CubanGuyNYC View Post
I've heard that more than once. It's essentially a myth. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but it's way overstated. Perhaps the worst (and only blatant) example I'm aware of this happening was when Mario Kindelan (32 years old) beat Amir Khan (17) for the 2004 lightweight gold medal. People have tried to discredit Teofilo Stevenson with the same argument, but Stevenson was two years younger than Duane Bobick, when he beat Duane for his first gold medal. Teofilo was of comparable age to the next two men he beat for his subsequent Olympic titles. Robeisy Ramirez (18 years old) won a gold medal at the 2012 Games. Cubans don't need an age or experience advantage. If misinformation is spread long enough, people start to believe and repeat it.
It's not a myth. An exaggeration is a more suitable word. But Cuba isn't the only place in the amateurs that does it. We're not just talking Olympics either. Just being fair you know.
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