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#1
Old 01-23-2013, 06:36 PM
Andre Wardttke
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Default Is Ward lineal champ at 168?

He's clearly the best there, and unified champ and undisputed number 1 in the division. But can he be considered LINEAL champ?

He wasn't ranked 2 when he beat Mikkel, and Kessler was ranked 1, but not champ as he only beat Sartisan after Joe moved up.

Then, he beat Froch, but most people regarded Bute as the second best in the division when Froch lost to Ward.
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#2
Old 01-23-2013, 06:41 PM
#1Assassin
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yes.

there are two ways to become lineal champ, one is to beat the reigning lineal champ. if there isnt a lineal champ in the division which was the case at 168 the #1 and #2 ranked fighters have to fight and the winner becomes lineal champ.

that was the case when ward fought and beat froch, hence he became lineal champion in the process.

like you say froch only dropped to #3 AFTER losing to ward, but was #2 going in making the fight for the lineal title. i think he was still #2 with the ring magazine after the ward fight too which is the one that matters anyways when we are talking lineal titles.

Last edited by #1Assassin; 01-23-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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#3
Old 01-23-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Trippy View Post
He's clearly the best there, and unified champ and undisputed number 1 in the division. But can he be considered LINEAL champ?

He wasn't ranked 2 when he beat Mikkel, and Kessler was ranked 1, but not champ as he only beat Sartisan after Joe moved up.

Then, he beat Froch, but most people regarded Bute as the second best in the division when Froch lost to Ward.
Bute and Froch were considered a toss up for #2 when Ward fought Froch because of Froch's loss to Kessler. A lineal champ is basically the winner of what are considered by everyone to be the 2 best in the division. Because of this, he is not a "lineal champ". If they fought now, it would give a start a lineage, They are the unanimous #1 and #2 of the division
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by #1Assassin View Post
yes.

there are two ways to become lineal champ, one is to beat the reigning lineal champ. if there isnt a lineal champ in the division which was the case at 168 the #1 and #2 ranked fighters have to fight and the winner becomes lineal champ.

that was the case when ward fought and beat froch, hence he became lineal champion in the process.
Bute was nymber 2, or number one depenidng on whos rankings you look at
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#5
Old 01-23-2013, 06:52 PM
#1Assassin
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Originally Posted by Earl Hickey View Post
Bute was nymber 2, or number one depenidng on whos rankings you look at
well we look at the ring, and i still dont think he was. maybe im wrong. thing is lineage can be decided between #1 and #3 in some cases as well. either way ward is lineal champion, thats a fact.



right from the start..
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#6
Old 01-23-2013, 06:52 PM
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Absolutely. No disputing it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by #1Assassin View Post
well we look at the ring, and i still dont think he was. maybe im wrong. thing is lineage can be decided between #1 and #3 in some cases as well. either way ward is lineal champion, thats a fact.



right from the start..
Bute was #1 (After Ward being Ring champ) in the Ring Rankings during that fight.

Lineage can be decided between #1 and 3 but thats if #2 lost to #1 already and a rematch would be in order to determine the champ. For example, when Floyd beat Cotto, he became #1 and cotto was pushed down to #2 i think. It wouldnt make sense for a lineage to start from a rematch so a fight with the 3rd ranked fighter would start a lineage.

It cant just randomly be a #3 fighter
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#8
Old 01-23-2013, 07:04 PM
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Ward is absolutely the lineal champ at 168. I've never heard anyone say otherwise
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#9
Old 01-23-2013, 07:19 PM
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Bute was #1 (After Ward being Ring champ) in the Ring Rankings during that fight.

Lineage can be decided between #1 and 3 but thats if #2 lost to #1 already and a rematch would be in order to determine the champ. For example, when Floyd beat Cotto, he became #1 and cotto was pushed down to #2 i think. It wouldnt make sense for a lineage to start from a rematch so a fight with the 3rd ranked fighter would start a lineage.

It cant just randomly be a #3 fighter
then froch was #2. acctually who gvies a fck. all this is completely fcking pointleess anyways. we can discuss all week who was ranked where when. the botttom line is ward was awarded the belt and if he wasnt lineal champion he wouldnt be given the lineal championship.

i really dont understand what you are trying to accomplish at this point. fact is ward holds the lineal championship and rightfully so, end of story.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:27 PM
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then froch was #2. acctually who gvies a fck. all this is completely fcking pointleess anyways. we can discuss all week who was ranked where when. the botttom line is ward was awarded the belt and if he wasnt lineal champion he wouldnt be given the lineal championship.

i really dont understand what you are trying to accomplish at this point. fact is ward holds the lineal championship and rightfully so, end of story.
Thats the point, a lineal champ is between the 2 top fighter, unanimously (even tho there is no such thing). Ward was unanimous #1 by everybody but #2 was up for grabs between Froch and Bute. THere was no concrete #2. Ward was given the Ring belt, it doesnt always follow the lineage tho. Lineal champ is a title, its not given, its earned by #1 fighting #2. There is no belt.

The Ring likes to give its belt away, i mean you can have a RIng champ by having #2 v #5, but it doesnt always follow a lineal champ. For example Hernandez, Vlad, Garcia are not lineal champs yet they hold Ring belts. Cotto-Margarito also did not form a lineage because Williams was the unanimous #2 after beating Margarito at that time.

Im not trying to accomplish anything, just stating facts
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