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#91
Old 01-19-2013, 02:06 PM
Marvellous1
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Originally Posted by willybullet View Post
Back to this quote, which is actually paraphrasing of the CA Penal Code from a legal website; "A California Penal Code 240 assault may be filed when an attempt to injure another is made. No physical contact is actually necessary to be convicted of assault.

A California assault can take place even though no battery occurs. However, a battery necessarily includes an assault. This is because it is impossible to commit a battery (a willful act) without first attempting to do so.

An assault is often called an 'attempted battery', while battery is often called a 'completed assault'."

And here's the actual statute;

"240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another."
Maybe no contact has to be made, but an attempt has to be made, right? Surely having a bat in your hand without swinging it cannot be an assault, or else we could accuse anyone who picks up a bat, right? So again, if Margarito is caught with the handwraps (the weapon) but has made no attempt to use them (meaning a punch hasn't even been thrown, let alone thrown and missedor thrown and landed) then what criminal charge would be made? Surely this is about possession of a weapon rather than any attempt to use it, failed or not.

Therefore, being caught with the handwraps BEFORE use isn't the same as being proved guilty of using them. Different offences and therefore subject to different authorities. That's the best explanation to the question of no criminal charges I can give.
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#92
Old 01-19-2013, 02:13 PM
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Tony tortilla was a bum!
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#93
Old 01-19-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAlexSand View Post
And the point to fight some one with one dimension of fighting, while trying to prove you are the best boxer wise of knowledge/style; does nothing for you as a boxer.

Margarito is and always will be the most overrated Mexican boxers. Thought by most, that his whole career has been fraudulent; yet questions a posed about who ducked him. No True Boxing Fan Should Care About Him. He is a cheat who possibly destroyed others careers because of his lack of confidence and lack of heart. No man who cheats in such a way should ever be praised by any one.
So instead of fighting Margarito fight Baldomir? lol! Talk about one dimensional!!!

Back then Floyd avoided Margarito. Margarito was not an easy fight for anyone.

I'm not here to praise Margarito as I agree with him being a cheater but we are discussing who ducked Margarito prior to knowing that he was a cheat. Floyd ducked Margarito!
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#94
Old 01-19-2013, 03:00 PM
Doc Holliday
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Originally Posted by Marvellous1 View Post
Maybe no contact has to be made, but an attempt has to be made, right? Surely having a bat in your hand without swinging it cannot be an assault, or else we could accuse anyone who picks up a bat, right? So again, if Margarito is caught with the handwraps (the weapon) but has made no attempt to use them (meaning a punch hasn't even been thrown, let alone thrown and missedor thrown and landed) then what criminal charge would be made? Surely this is about possession of a weapon rather than any attempt to use it, failed or not.

Therefore, being caught with the handwraps BEFORE use isn't the same as being proved guilty of using them. Different offences and therefore subject to different authorities. That's the best explanation to the question of no criminal charges I can give.
You can be charged with assault if you're holding the bat in a threatening manner without even swinging it. In the bat example, that might include a verbal threat, but the verbal threat isn't strictly necessary. That's something that would be decided in court.

as·sault [ ***601; sáwlt ]
1. physical or verbal attack: a violent physical or verbal attack
2. threat of bodily harm: an unlawful threat or attempt to do violence or harm to somebody else

But the Margarito/Capetillo case is not the same as your bat example. In the handwrap case, all that is necessary is ability and intent. Capetillo had the ability (access to wrapping Margs hands), and intent (by sending Margs into the ring with "plaster-loaded wraps") to cause Mosley physical harm, beyond Mosley's consent granted by taking part in a prize fight (since taking an actual weapon, e.g., "plaster bricks", into the ring is illegal per commission rules and state law).

From another legal website;

"How Does the Prosecutor Prove that I Committed an Assault with a Deadly Weapon?

In order to convict you of assault with a deadly weapon (under California Penal Code 245(a)(1)), the prosecution must prove two elements:
1) that you assaulted another person and
2) that you perpetrated the assault with the use of a deadly weapon or some means of force likely to result in great bodily injury (known as “GBI” for short)

It is not necessary for the prosecution to prove that you actually injured the alleged victim or that you even made physical contact with him or her. It is sufficient that you (a) had the ability to carry out the assault and (b) that you harbored the intent to injure the alleged victim."

In element 2) wielding or holding a weapon can be considered "use" of the deadly weapon.

Btw, I'm not a lawyer and none of this is intended as legal advice. I'm only explaining my point of view by using examples readily available by searching the Internet.
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#95
Old 01-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Marvellous1
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Originally Posted by ADP02 View Post
So instead of fighting Margarito fight Baldomir? lol! Talk about one dimensional!!!

Back then Floyd avoided Margarito. Margarito was not an easy fight for anyone.

I'm not here to praise Margarito as I agree with him being a cheater but we are discussing who ducked Margarito prior to knowing that he was a cheat. Floyd ducked Margarito!
Well, the thread states EVERYONE ducked Margarito. The thread has revealed that isn't true. As far as Paul Williams is concerned, Margarito did a little picking and choosing himself. If the ducking notion makes people feel better about Margarito's shortcomings. Good luck to them. He may have lost most of his big fights, he may have been a cheat, but he was avoided. Take that good feeling to bed with you if it keeps you warm.
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#96
Old 01-19-2013, 03:13 PM
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Willy, I appreciate your point and give you kudos for doing your homework.

Could a person be charged with assault if someone else put a weapon their pocket without their knowledge and no attempt was made to use it. Here we have the crux. Margarito could, and I think did deny any knowledge of what was in those wraps. So if he had no knowledge he was carrying a weapon to the ring, how could he be criminally charged with assault before even using it?

That the substance was there, meant there had to be sanctions against him and his team (probably to make an example of them as much as in response to any implied guilt). But to me, circumstances change if the perp denies knowledge of the wraps' potential danger and he's been caught before he used them. If marg wrapped his own hands and was proved to know what he was doing, and was proved to have used them before..... different ball game. I think all that could be done in this case, was done.
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#97
Old 01-19-2013, 03:20 PM
Doc Holliday
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Originally Posted by Marvellous1 View Post
Willy, I appreciate your point and give you kudos for doing your homework.

Could a person be charged with assault if someone else put a weapon their pocket without their knowledge and no attempt was made to use it. Here we have the crux. Margarito could, and I think did deny any knowledge of what was in those wraps. So if he had no knowledge he was carrying a weapon to the ring, how could he be criminally charged with assault before even using it?

That the substance was there, meant there had to be sanctions against him and his team (probably to make an example of them as much as in response to any implied guilt). But to me, circumstances change if the perp denies knowledge of the wraps' potential danger and he's been caught before he used them. If marg wrapped his own hands and was proved to know what he was doing, and was proved to have used them before..... different ball game. I think all that could be done in this case, was done.
Right, and some trainers went on record saying it was possible for Margs not to notice what Capetillo put in his wraps. If you go back to my initial post in this thread, I asked why Capetillo wasn't charged at least.
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#98
Old 01-19-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztec Wanker View Post
So before you aks yourself "Who is Margarito" "Who did he beat?" blahzay blahzay, please educate yourselves and accept that no one in Boxing gave The Tijuana Tornado an opportunity in his prime. Not bad for a so called "unskilled, one-dimensional bum".

what would a win over margarito done for those fighters career at that point in time ?nothing
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#99
Old 01-19-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ADP02 View Post
So instead of fighting Margarito fight Baldomir? lol! Talk about one dimensional!!!

Back then Floyd avoided Margarito. Margarito was not an easy fight for anyone.

I'm not here to praise Margarito as I agree with him being a cheater but we are discussing who ducked Margarito prior to knowing that he was a cheat. Floyd ducked Margarito!
baldomir was the lineal champ what was margarito?baldomir win over judah was better than any win margarito had at that point in time and when floyd was getting ready to fight judah he was asked why did he not fight hatton or baldomir and was criticized
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#100
Old 01-19-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willybullet View Post
Back to this quote, which is actually paraphrasing of the CA Penal Code from a legal website; "A California Penal Code 240 assault may be filed when an attempt to injure another is made. No physical contact is actually necessary to be convicted of assault.

A California assault can take place even though no battery occurs. However, a battery necessarily includes an assault. This is because it is impossible to commit a battery (a willful act) without first attempting to do so.

An assault is often called an 'attempted battery', while battery is often called a 'completed assault'."

And here's the actual statute;

"240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another."
Good points, willybullet. But I still don't get what point you're trying to make about Margarito....was Margarito framed, the incident grossly exaggerated, etc?
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