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View Poll Results: Did Vitali 'dominate' Lennox Lewis?
Yes 32 17.30%
No 153 82.70%
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#101
Old 01-16-2013, 03:58 PM
edgarg
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Originally Posted by IMDAZED View Post
Lewis was coming on very strong at the time of the stoppage. Enjoyed a huge sixth round and it seemed to me Vitali was tiring badly. So was Lennox but his experience allowed him to fight better under those circumstances. Vitali, on the other hand, was doing everything to hold on in that round, which paved the way for several vicious Lewis uppercuts. So was Vitali dominating? No. Was he winning the fight on the cards at the time of the stoppage? Yes.
You put far too much emphasis on those "uppercuts" Klitschko was holding him so closely, that the uppercuts had no force and were having no effect, There were about 5-6 and Lewis is noted for his uppercuts. So why did they have no effect..... Even Tyson went down from a well placed uppercut........

It's a common situation. When a fist or arm is hampered, all the power is lost.
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#102
Old 01-16-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
They both looked terrible after a few rounds. These are fighters that are considered great???? They looked like Rocky & Apollo no condidtioning, no techniques and definetly no Methods!! To oversized sloppy guys who fall apart after a few rounds of punches being landed. Unable to put combinations together you see No One blocking, slipping or parring shots its all bend over then throw one punch at a time. Terrible conditioning! Ray.
You are exactly right. Everybody was so influenced by Larry Merchant's drooling over the fight, saying "this is the best hevyweight fight I've seen in yeeeaaars....." and his voice cracked on "years". I had been thinking that it was just plain brutal bashing. I assumed it was because Klitschko had been so frustrated at not being able to get Lewis to fight for over a year, when he was the #1 contender, that he just let it boil over. And he certainly had taken a dislike to him. Maybe Lewis keeping it in limbo whilst he haggled an extra $4 mill from the promoters before he'd take the fight, had something to do with it.

Last edited by edgarg; 01-16-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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#103
Old 01-16-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by edgarg View Post
You put far too much emphasis on those "uppercuts" Klitschko was holding him so closely, that the uppercuts had no force and were having no effect, There were about 5-6 and Lewis is noted for his uppercuts. So why did they have no effect..... Even Tyson went down from a well placed uppercut........

It's a common situation. When a fist or arm is hampered, all the power is lost.
Yeah no effect. Sure. I don't know who was hitting Vitali that left him with a black and blue swollen cheeckbone, cuts in two places, bleeding from the mouth and an eye ready to fall out. Maybe it was Manny Steward who did it. Yeah, that's it. Well...whatever Lewis was doing, it got him a six round TKO.
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#104
Old 01-16-2013, 04:28 PM
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I didn't say they didn't try! I said they're NOT well conditioned men it shows right in front of you! You don't train to look good you train to be able to absorb punishment and continue on with the fight. These guys can't throw combination after getting hit with a few punches. They were stumbling all over the ring after 4 rounds.
Their good heavies but their not great fighters, if one or both appear in a great fight that still doesn't make them great!!!! Style, technique, ring generalship, being a finisher are some of the attributes a great fighter has.
These guys are oversized, out of shape, second tear fighters. In the top fifty with Vitali being after fifty!! Sorry but they simply don't have any style, they can barely jab/right hand they look terrible throwing a hook and when they do throw a hook do they ever come back with a right hand? No!
Ray.
I think they both have style, Lewis has shown it, and so has klitschko...but in other fights. In this fight, Klitschko just wanted to tear Lewis apart, and Lewis was more than a bit startled at klitschko's ferocity. He was used to opponents giving him a little rush, and being able to to fight off the back foot keeping him at bay with a left jab until he was softened up.

But Klitschko wasn't playing that game; Lewis was thrown out of his comfort zone, and had to fight back the same way, as much as he could. Lewis was practically finished when the dr stopped the fight. He gave 3 different reasons at three different interviews, and, I believe, he eventually realised his mistake. Klitschko's eyebrow damage was merely superficial compared to real damage I've seen. probably you too. After 10 days, the cut was not even visible to a camera closeup. He had a top cosmetic surgeon attend to it and gave a special TV showing about it.
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#105
Old 01-16-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by edgarg View Post
You put far too much emphasis on those "uppercuts" Klitschko was holding him so closely, that the uppercuts had no force and were having no effect.

So, THAT uppercut in round 6 had no effect?

You're kidding, right?
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#106
Old 01-16-2013, 04:52 PM
edgarg
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Originally Posted by gmc_rfc_06 View Post
I never said he had lost his power. I said he was slower, which in turn took a little something off his punches.

It's simple; Force=Mass x Acceleration - a faster Lewis is a harder hitting Lewis.

Talking about a fight, even liking the idea of a fight, doesn't mean he had the motivation to go through another long, grueling camp. Clearly he didn't. He liked the idea of a rematch, but not enough to motivate him into another training camp...he didn't even put in the work for what was very much his farewell fight.
What you're saying is patently untrue. He certainly DIDN'T like the idea of a rematch. He avoided and ducked it as much as he could, and after Klitschko demolished Kirk Johnson (lewis's original opponent) on Dec 10t-which was when the rematch was supposed to have happened- he was more determined than ever not to fight the rematch.

The WBC gave him 90 days to have the fight, and it was no co-incidence that he retired just the very day before the WBC was going to strip him.

Lewis has always been full of malice and spite against both Klitschkos, and his after-retirement contacts with ongoing Klitschko opponents shows this too. I'm sure you know this. They took a lot of the heavyweight aura away from him ...the great Lewis...the pugilist specialist....the fine wine.... the stuttering, idiotic self-glorifier......

He showed himself up completely when Larry Merchant tried to nail him down in their after fight interview. lewis was still shaking from the narrow escape he'd had.

it seems that you guys have forgotten all this.
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#107
Old 01-16-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by edgarg View Post
Lewis has always been full of malice and spite against both Klitschkos, and his after-retirement contacts with ongoing Klitschko opponents shows this too. I'm sure you know this. They took a lot of the heavyweight aura away from him ...the great Lewis...the pugilist specialist....the fine wine.... the stuttering, idiotic self-glorifier......
Why would he be full of malice? He's the last undisputed HW champion of the world. To some, he's the GOAT. He avenged all of his defeats (something Vitali and Wladimir have failed to do). Wladimir, of course, didn't have the opportunity to avenge Sanders defeat; but Vitali could have re-matched Byrd.

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Originally Posted by edgarg View Post
He showed himself up completely when Larry Merchant tried to nail him down in their after fight interview.
HBO were always hating on Lewis - desperate for him to lose. You always hear fighters promising rematches in the post-fight interviews (look at Danny Garcia after the Khan fight etc.). It means nothing.

What did Lewis have to gain?
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#108
Old 01-16-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gmc_rfc_06 View Post
I never said he had lost his power. I said he was slower, which in turn took a little something off his punches.

It's simple; Force=Mass x Acceleration - a faster Lewis is a harder hitting Lewis.

Talking about a fight, even liking the idea of a fight, doesn't mean he had the motivation to go through another long, grueling camp. Clearly he didn't. He liked the idea of a rematch, but not enough to motivate him into another training camp...he didn't even put in the work for what was very much his farewell fight.
Just a little point that I think you don't know. long grueling camps" to YOU are just "business as usual" to a fighter. It's the conditioning he's used to and knows he needs to carry on his chosen BUSINESS.

The Great Gama used to do 3000 squats with a 200 lb weight every morning for much of his life, along with about 1000 pushups, even when not training for anything.

I think you are too influenced by seeing RockY getting into condition for the Russian fighter..........

Many fighters are known to actively enjoy camp training, and are regularly in the gym even when no fights are arranged.
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#109
Old 01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
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Anyone who claims to know what would've happened without the cut is an idiot. It was fairly even, but Vitali was ahead. Both were struggling with the pace.
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#110
Old 01-16-2013, 05:09 PM
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he didnt have experience at age 31 AND having already been a world champion? NO -he had EVERY chance to gain experience if hes by that time thirtysomething in his career. If you claimed any thirtysomething in any other job for life didnt have experience you'd be laughed at for a century. Because you'd be 100% wrong.

Concerning Lewis - every year after 30 you are losing lung power, reaction speed and muscle tone, its a scientific fact. Lewis was 37, so he's had 7 years of incrementally losing his physical attributes, and it was now starting to show by the time he was in his late thirties.

As for the rest of your rematch claim, LL was 38, due for retirement, so he retired - its that simple. Virtually no HW champion has fought on past 38, with very few exceptions. Who are you to say that virtually all the HW champions we have ever had were wrong to retire before they got beyond that age? Who are you to say a guy who should be retired ought to risk his old body and brain in the ring again because you are irked that your fighter wasnt good enough to beat old him? No, its YOU thats wrong, not all of them.

the alternative you are arguing is that the fight wasnt stopped, Vitali would have lost his sight and would never have entered the ring again. Good thing Vitali didnt listen to you, or he'd be just another bum at this point in history.
You can be asked "who are you to talk such nonsense"..... The answer is of course that you are nobody in particular, but you are entitled by the laws of the country to talk as much nonsense as you want to.

And you certainly use this entitlement.

And, by the way, Klitschko's sight was in no danger, wasn't even slightly impaired. The cut was on his EYEBROW with no swelling, which, if you look in the mirror, you will see is about an inch away from the eye.

O course your eyes and eyebrows may be only millimetres apart.....

Last edited by edgarg; 01-16-2013 at 05:18 PM.
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