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#41
Old 01-14-2013, 08:15 PM
lieutenant
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The boxing media were trying to discredit a Marquez win before it even happened There were a bunch of articles out there stating even if he won it would be "tainted". They had no evidence, only suspicions and IMO that is shoddy and irresponsible journalism. JMM should sue Roach and HBO for defamation like Manny sued Mayweather and Golden Boy.
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#42
Old 01-14-2013, 08:25 PM
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bu-bu-but-but Freddie was just joking...

that makes it different.

/sarcasm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lieutenant View Post
The boxing media were trying to discredit a Marquez win before it even happened There were a bunch of articles out there stating even if he won it would be "tainted". They had no evidence, only suspicions and IMO that is shoddy and irresponsible journalism. JMM should sue Roach and HBO for defamation like Manny sued Mayweather and Golden Boy.
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#43
Old 01-14-2013, 08:32 PM
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Pac fans have no right to demand stricter drug testing.

What is interesting though is the same people who condemned Pac as a probable juicer are OK with JMM with also probably being one.

My opinion - I think all the elite fighters, including The Great Crusader himself Floyd Mayweather, are on some form of PED. There's too much money and benefit to be derived from juicing for them not to be doing it (in addition to the paranoia, and I guess self-justification that the other guy is juicing too).
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#44
Old 01-15-2013, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deevel916 View Post
Source: Btalk mailbag reply

Sometimes when you do side by side comparisons, you subconsciously try to make different circumstances the same. But if I must put them side by side then I will.
Before I start let me say this. I try to base my stance on facts and strong logical opinion. I only enter my logical opinion when there are no facts to stand on.

Now letís go side by side. I did not hear one person accuse Manny Pacquiao of PED use until Team Mayweather started openly picking against him AFTER he rose in weight and became the face of boxing. In each of his fights somebody from Floydís family would say Manny was going to lose. After he destroyed his opponents, then more whispers would start.

When your main accuser is your rival it gives the accusations less credence. In my opinion these accusations took a life of their own and everything Manny did or didnít do became magnified. If he scored a brutal KO he was a PED user, if he went the distance then he was cycling off.

I personally never saw a huge change in Mannyís body or performances. As you cut less weight and become older you put slightly more mass on. But besides a small % of mass, I didnít see a huge difference in Pacquiao. Although let me point out, a fighter has a right to improve and it doesnít have to be because of the cheating.

Now let's go side by side. Although Freddie Roach made an unwarranted comment about Marquez, Team Pacquiao did not go on a crusade to discredit him. Pacquiao as always acted like a great sportsman and accepted his defeat. Heís also willing to fight Marquez no matter what. Some feel that Mayweather didnít want to fight Pacquiao and the drug testing was just a ploy to not fight. When Manny has accepted blood testing against Mayweather, the original 50/50 offer is no longer valid. So that particular fact, gives that train of thought some credence.

While I refuse to condemn Marquez or Pacquiao, there have been many more suspicious circumstances surrounding Marquez. I didnít make these things up, but when Iím asked I will discuss them. For one I didnít want to bet on the fight because I kept hearing about PED use.

I ask people close to camps how fighters look before I make a public bet. I was hearing that both guys were looking great but Marquez was looking freakish. Knocking speed bags off the swivels, brutalizing sparring partners and not taking off his shirt much because the freakishly bulging muscles might look suspicious. Kim, I had to factor those things in, especially when Iím betting MY money.

Now Kim I have defended Marquez on several fronts, but I do discuss the totality of the circumstances and I did factor these things in before I decided NOT to bet on the fight. In fact my sources were 100% accurate in their assessment of Marquezís freakish punching power leading into this fight. I have never heard so many PED rumors before a fight. There is no way we can overlook that Marquez looks less physically imposing in between Pacquiao fights, than he does for the Pacquiao fights. There is no way we can dismiss how flabby Marquez looked against Floyd in 2009 and how awesome he looked against Pacquiao in 2012. I am not implying or inferring anything, thatís just what it is.

Sure it could be natural. I personally walk around at about 210. Last year I ate everything my fighter eats before a fight, I ran and swam. No ballistic training and nothing special. I went down to 189 in 30 days and I got extremely cut. I am a few years younger than Marquez so I know with muscle confusion and super hard work great transformations can take place. But Marquez hired a strength coach, Memo Heredia who has changed his name after admittedly helping Olympians use PEDS-- itís public record that he was not only a PED supplier but a ďcooperating government witnessĒ. In the hood you know what we call that.

Kim, it would be irresponsible to not talk about everything. So under the law, Marquez is clean until proven dirty. But there are some dubious circumstances that surround him. Will you agree?

On top of that in this business sometimes people with a platform canít SAY everything they KNOW. Read what Iím about to say closely. There is a reason why Jim Lampley made the statement he made on his boxing show 2 weeks ago. Listen to him closelyÖ.

There is a reason why he mentioned VADA and no other testing agency. There is a reason why HBO purposely exposed Memo on the 24/7. We have to use OUR common sense Kim and take emotion out of it. There is a reason for all of these subtle insinuations.

So if you think Iím implying that Marquez is on something, I am NOT. I am openly suggesting that the ďpowers that beĒ are doing and saying certain things because they know a lot more than they say.

One more thing. This is a challenge to both Marquez and Pacquiao. If they want people to believe they are clean athletes, indulge in VADA testing immediately. Not when the fight gets announced or what have you. But immediately. Turn in all of your supplements and vitamins to VADA and allow them to be inspected. Be proactive and NOT reactive. Both of you great fighters.

Itís getting lame to say I will take whatever test they want me to take. We all know it doesnít work like that. VADA has a V in it for a reason. Voluntarily is the word. So go volunteer for these test or the suspicion will always be there.
lets go to the video tape.....

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#45
Old 01-15-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoggyLungs View Post
well he couldn't sign anything because money later became the issue and thus further stalled the fight from happening...the fact is pac later agreed to the extra testing with no cut off... he didn't agree initially, but he eventually wised up and decided to make it clear to everyone that extra testing with no cut off was no longer an issue for him.
No, the fact is that Pacquiao has never agreed to extra testing. Telling the media that you will agree to extra testing and signing a contract that says you will agree to extra testing are 2 different things. Pacquiao and Arum count on ignorant fanboys like you that will just accept and believe whatever they say without questioning it.



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Originally Posted by SoggyLungs View Post
i think there's more to it than that...i do remember that team pac asked for extra testing, but it was turned down.
Yes, it was turned down by Pacquiao. Marquez volunteered to submit to the random testing and Pacquiao decided to turn down his offer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SoggyLungs View Post
well imo marquez is far more suspicious than pacquiao considering marquez hired a known ped dealer/guru/chemist who has boasted about making 20 undetectable peds and about having a love for chemistry and helping athletes cheat....plus marquez's power and physical changes is shocking for a 39 year old..even nacho was surprised at how explosive and strong marquez was when they started camp for the 4th fight...marquez at 39 is knocking speed bags off their swivels, destroying sparring partners, squatting huge amount of weights, and putting pacquiao on the canvas twice in just 6 rounds, and all of this happening after he hired heredia...
Well you're a biased hypocrite. Of course you're more suspicious of Marquez. The point continues to fly over your head though. If you dismissed suspicions concerning Pacquiao and gave him a pass for refusing Mayweather's request for extra testing because he had never failed the standard drug tests administered by the commision, then you should give Marquez that same benefit of the doubt. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. Your excuses for having a double standard are a joke.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoggyLungs View Post
if marquez is planning to continue fighting then he has to submit to all year round random testing because heredia himself has said that any boxer who plans to use his services has to submit to all year round testing. he said this in a USA Today article just before the 4th marquez fight...so how come marquez isn't doing all year round testing then? unless he plans on retiring....
I'm not Marquez or Heredia, you'll have to ask them that.
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#46
Old 01-15-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldie View Post
No, the fact is that Pacquiao has never agreed to extra testing. Telling the media that you will agree to extra testing and signing a contract that says you will agree to extra testing are 2 different things. Pacquiao and Arum count on ignorant fanboys like you that will just accept and believe whatever they say without questioning it.



Yes, it was turned down by Pacquiao. Marquez volunteered to submit to the random testing and Pacquiao decided to turn down his offer.



Well you're a biased hypocrite. Of course you're more suspicious of Marquez. The point continues to fly over your head though. If you dismissed suspicions concerning Pacquiao and gave him a pass for refusing Mayweather's request for extra testing because he had never failed the standard drug tests administered by the commision, then you should give Marquez that same benefit of the doubt. Otherwise you are a hypocrite. Your excuses for having a double standard are a joke.


I'm not Marquez or Heredia, you'll have to ask them that.
Mother****ing BOOM!!!!!!!!!


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