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#1
Old 01-13-2013, 02:30 PM
HaglerSteelChin
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Default Will the IBHOF take a strong anti-ped stand like the Baseball Hall of Fame just did?

We recently saw the Baseball Hall of Fame refused to induct any new nominees. This included major superstars like Clemens, Bonds, and Sosa.
None of the three have ever tested positive and both Bonds and Clemens have been exonerated on federal perjury charges regarding peds. However, the widespread speculation that they may have taken peds as HGH and EPO got them not even half the votes necessary for induction.

In boxing there are guys like James Toney who has the IBHOF resume but did test positive for steroids. In addition, there are guys like Mosley who while deposed admitted he did take EPO. This is after he said he “unknowingly” took the “clear and cream” during the BALCO scandal. Of course, there is someone like Evander Holyfield who also never was directly implicated, but did suffer through the suspicion of the “Evan Fields” scandal.

A guy like Fernando Vargas who beat Ike Quartey and Winky Wright did test positive after the DLH fight. His small chance of getting in the IBHOF is pretty much gone.

Will the IBHOF follow the precedent established by the baseball hall of fame to send a message to future ped violators?

The hypocrisy of the sport is everyone is kissing up to Donaire for his voluntary drug testing, yet will they seem to condone usage with slap on the wrist penalties and by the BWAA voting these known ped users to the IBHOF.
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#2
Old 01-13-2013, 02:39 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral  to one of the greats - jas 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaglerSteelChin View Post
We recently saw the Baseball Hall of Fame refused to induct any new nominees. This included major superstars like Clemens, Bonds, and Sosa.
None of the three have ever tested positive and both Bonds and Clemens have been exonerated on federal perjury charges regarding peds. However, the widespread speculation that they may have taken peds as HGH and EPO got them not even half the votes necessary for induction.

In boxing there are guys like James Toney who has the IBHOF resume but did test positive for steroids. In addition, there are guys like Mosley who while deposed admitted he did take EPO. This is after he said he “unknowingly” took the “clear and cream” during the BALCO scandal. Of course, there is someone like Evander Holyfield who also never was directly implicated, but did suffer through the suspicion of the “Evan Fields” scandal.

A guy like Fernando Vargas who beat Ike Quartey and Winky Wright did test positive after the DLH fight. His small chance of getting in the IBHOF is pretty much gone.

Will the IBHOF follow the precedent established by the baseball hall of fame to send a message to future ped violators?

The hypocrisy of the sport is everyone is kissing up to Donaire for his voluntary drug testing, yet will they seem to condone usage with slap on the wrist penalties and by the BWAA voting these known ped users to the IBHOF.
It won't affect my voting much if any. I'll take into consideration positive tests, but I won't presume cheating in all other endeavors. I mean, in the case of Toney, I think he was a HOFer well before he got old and got busted hanging on. Evander? Got busted (sort of) near 50 when he was hanging on well past expiration. I don't think Vargas had HOF chops even without getting popped.

I like that Baseball has high standards. They get carried away. Biggio, with 3K hits among other accomplishments, not getting in was a joke. Lots of worthy players left out for far too long.

I don't anticipate Boxing voters going that way.
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#3
Old 01-13-2013, 02:57 PM
HaglerSteelChin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crold1 View Post
It won't affect my voting much if any. I'll take into consideration positive tests, but I won't presume cheating in all other endeavors. I mean, in the case of Toney, I think he was a HOFer well before he got old and got busted hanging on. Evander? Got busted (sort of) near 50 when he was hanging on well past expiration. I don't think Vargas had HOF chops even without getting popped.

I like that Baseball has high standards. They get carried away. Biggio, with 3K hits among other accomplishments, not getting in was a joke. Lots of worthy players left out for far too long.

I don't anticipate Boxing voters going that way.
I also think Piazza should have got in. Guys like Bonds and Clemens were HOF material well before any suspicion of ped usage.

Perhaps i think the BWAA will take that into consideration for boderline guys.
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#4
Old 01-13-2013, 03:14 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral  to one of the greats - jas 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaglerSteelChin View Post
I also think Piazza should have got in. Guys like Bonds and Clemens were HOF material well before any suspicion of ped usage.

Perhaps i think the BWAA will take that into consideration for boderline guys.
I don't think it will be that much of a consideration. Boxing doesn't have a character clause and there is no threshold. It's pluralism in voting...you can theoretically be on 10% of ballots and if you are among the top 3 vote getters, you are in. I used to hate that, and still don't like it, but the Hall is funded largely on HOF weekend. No inductees = threat to existence. Outside Gatti, I don't think there has been an atrocious call since the cap was dropped to 3. That's a solid quality control and boxing is no exacting that I don't mind a few borderline, numbers guys like Hill getting in.

I'd feel safe saying there's not a chance in hell Evander, Roy etc. aren't inducted first ballot. There are convicted criminals, guys who are KNOWN to have competed in fixed fights...it's boxing. It's a different animal.
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#5
Old 01-13-2013, 05:40 PM
HaglerSteelChin
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I don't think it will be that much of a consideration. Boxing doesn't have a character clause and there is no threshold. It's pluralism in voting...you can theoretically be on 10% of ballots and if you are among the top 3 vote getters, you are in. I used to hate that, and still don't like it, but the Hall is funded largely on HOF weekend. No inductees = threat to existence. Outside Gatti, I don't think there has been an atrocious call since the cap was dropped to 3. That's a solid quality control and boxing is no exacting that I don't mind a few borderline, numbers guys like Hill getting in.

I'd feel safe saying there's not a chance in hell Evander, Roy etc. aren't inducted first ballot. There are convicted criminals, guys who are KNOWN to have competed in fixed fights...it's boxing. It's a different animal.
Baseball in the early days had its share of criminals and KKK members inducted. In addition, guys with a shady pass got in like Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker.

However, a boderline guy like Orlando Cepeda didn't get in because many felt his drug conviction hurt him.

Boxing had convicted criminals like Carlos Monzon, Mike Tyson, and Sonny Liston get inducted. However, there are boderline guys that are ex-cons like Esteban Dejesus Price Nazeem Hamed, and Riddick Bowe who didn't get inducted. Many feel that their character issues out of the ring killed their induction.

The fixed fights is interesting. Primo Carnera who participated in fixed fights got in the WBHOF, but never the IBHOF.

I guess we will see what impact if any that peds will have in IBHOF future inductions.
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#6
Old 01-13-2013, 05:47 PM
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It would mean people who were even suspected would be left out. Forget Roy and Vitali, now Pacquiao, Hopkins and Evander wouldn't even get in.
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#7
Old 01-13-2013, 05:54 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral  to one of the greats - jas 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaglerSteelChin View Post
Baseball in the early days had its share of criminals and KKK members inducted. In addition, guys with a shady pass got in like Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker.

However, a boderline guy like Orlando Cepeda didn't get in because many felt his drug conviction hurt him.

Boxing had convicted criminals like Carlos Monzon, Mike Tyson, and Sonny Liston get inducted. However, there are boderline guys that are ex-cons like Esteban Dejesus Price Nazeem Hamed, and Riddick Bowe who didn't get inducted. Many feel that their character issues out of the ring killed their induction.

The fixed fights is interesting. Primo Carnera who participated in fixed fights got in the WBHOF, but never the IBHOF.

I guess we will see what impact if any that peds will have in IBHOF future inductions.
Bowe hasn't made the ballot yet. DeJesus never has (and I've heard that's why). Hamed hasn't been inducted because he hasn't got enough votes and many don't think he was good enough. I've never spoken to a voter who mentioned a crime issue.
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#8
Old 01-13-2013, 05:56 PM
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Steroid and Xylocaine cheats like Mosley.Jones,Toney and Mayweather would have to be denied so it won't happen
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#9
Old 01-13-2013, 06:05 PM
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Its a very weird situation with baseball. Steroids basically saved the league in the 90's after the strike and now anybody with any tie to them isnt getting in. What is the GOAT hitter of baseball history and one of its greatest pitchers didnt make it due to suspicion of steroids.

But i dont agree with guys like Piazza and Biggio not getting in. A lot of those voters have a stick up their asses with this first time ballet crap. Piazza got 57% and they need 75% to make the HOF. He will eventually make it in but why are almost 20% of guys going to change their minds in the future?

Either way i like their high standerds in baseball
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