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#21
Old 01-07-2013, 10:21 AM
Syf
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Nah to the ones sayin cotto should fight off the back foot. That's what really started turning the fight against him past the point of no return. Cotto was having early success against trout when he cornered him, but he didn't have the chin/stamina to keep up that line of attack so he proceeded to mambo artound the ring and let trout pick his spots. Rthe idea was to make Trout as uncomfortable as possible with pressure but when he let off the gas he failed the gameplan.
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#22
Old 01-07-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryRobinson
I think that Cotto was perfectly capable of throwing a straight right hand to the body or chest and trying to land with his left hook to the head. They were trying to land consecutive hooks. Obviously Cotto is not Ward, they have different names. I do think Cotto a veteran fighter is capable of throwing a straight right hand instead of a right hook...It takes to long to get there.
good observation... and most people forget that Cotto has a really good straight right hand... a very important weapon for him in the past...


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#23
Old 01-07-2013, 10:28 AM
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Great discussions here...

I think what happened to Cotto was that he could simply no followed the game plan entirely and tried to KO Trout. The "KO only route" is a demon he sadly still need to fight at this stage on his career. Some time ago he admitted get accustomed to KO guys and forgot boxing.

There are a couple of rounds in the middle that Cotto boxed moving around Trout and was successful. Curiously, similar to some great rounds against May... and what I think was most of his style against Mosley.

At Margarito II, he followed the plan (a different one) most of the fight, but there were several occasions when he did not follow Pedro's advice and wanted to exchange.... so the chance this happened here still on my mind, probably because he thought Trout was another step stone.

We should not forget either what Trout said... there are not too many videos or fights out there "to study me", so the chance of having a great plan diminished... only stay strong the chance to adapt quickly... and here Pedro is a rookie... and Cotto still a fuqqin stubborn to fix himself.

...of course, all said by no means discredit Trout's victory. Congrats to him and their team!
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#24
Old 01-07-2013, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studentofthegam
Cotto has always done better when he's being followed. It was evident in the fight with Floyd also. I agree that he should have fought in reverse as much as possible.
thats just not true... it is an aspect of his game, and he can fight going backwards but he is at his best applying intellegent pressure behind his jab... Trout was a really tall mountain to climb... not sure why everyone is writing Cotto off... Id put money on Trout vs Canelo... Canelo doesnt do as well as Cotto... not enough versatility in his attack and hes not as good defensively.... dont let cottos face fool you... his face swells badly since Margarito I...


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#25
Old 01-07-2013, 10:32 AM
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Cotto was having some success on the back-foot, but still, you don't want to give up that much territory against a guy who has the size and speed advantage. Trout isn't at his best on the front foot, and Cotto isn't at his best on the back foot.
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#26
Old 01-07-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushbaby View Post
Wait, what?? So the shorter fighter (Cotto) should have tried to fight off the backfoot?? Listen bro, shorter fighters need to get inside the longer fighters reach.Bob & weave his way in & work the body & head, tie up & repeat.

A shorter fighter fighting on the outside is suicide in most instances.
If you are fighting a taller guy that is good at keeping you outside, it is a good strategy to back off and let him come to you. If your forward movement ins't getting you close enough, let HIS forward movement get you close enough. You shouldn't fight off of the backfoot and TRY to be outside of your range. But backing off and letting him move forward is a good option if your normal strategy isn't working.
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#27
Old 01-07-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatdudespits View Post
thats just not true... it is an aspect of his game, and he can fight going backwards but he is at his best applying intellegent pressure behind his jab... Trout was a really tall mountain to climb... not sure why everyone is writing Cotto off... Id put money on Trout vs Canelo... Canelo doesnt do as well as Cotto... not enough versatility in his attack and hes not as good defensively.... dont let cottos face fool you... his face swells badly since Margarito I...


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His best fights were fought in that fashion. He beat Mosely by being the slicker boxer. When he uses his jab (which is decievingly fast)and moves backward at angles (not straight back) he looks really good. The video evidence is there. Over aggressiveness moving in got his ass whooped by Pacquiao. His problem has always been bad game planning. Think about it. When he stood in range with Judah he got beat. When he decided to box and use his feet it got easier. Not saying he should abandon the inside game totally but he should soften guys up with his boxing first. The issue is knowing when to switch it up.
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#28
Old 01-07-2013, 10:57 AM
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From what I remember he made Trout change his stripes. Trout doesn't like to "fight". He prefers to "box". Once he realized that he changed Trouts game he should have backed off and picked his spots.
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#29
Old 01-07-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studentofthegam
Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

thats just not true... it is an aspect of his game, and he can fight going backwards but he is at his best applying intellegent pressure behind his jab... Trout was a really tall mountain to climb... not sure why everyone is writing Cotto off... Id put money on Trout vs Canelo... Canelo doesnt do as well as Cotto... not enough versatility in his attack and hes not as good defensively.... dont let cottos face fool you... his face swells badly since Margarito I...


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His best fights were fought in that fashion. He beat Mosely by being the slicker boxer. When he uses his jab (which is decievingly fast)and moves backward at angles (not straight back) he looks really good. The video evidence is there. Over aggressiveness moving in got his ass whooped by Pacquiao. His problem has always been bad game planning. Think about it. When he stood in range with Judah he got beat. When he decided to box and use his feet it got easier. Not saying he should abandon the inside game totally but he should soften guys up with his boxing first. The issue is knowing when to switch it up.
Pacquiao beat his ass because cotto decided to trade with a guy who had faster hands... pacquiao was playing the angles well in that fight... his footwork has rarely looked as good...

When you fight a come forward style, your bound to get hit sometimes... and yes Zab caught Cotto with some good uppercuts... doesnt change the fact that he lost almost every round of the fight...cotto came forward the entire fight constant pressure.
zab has fast hands ... he has a REAL knockdown that he should have gotten credit for on floyd....

mosley... cotto fought that fight coming forward for most of the fight... won most his rounds that way... he only switched styles when mosley started to rally and cotto saw he wasnt going to knock him out...



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#30
Old 01-07-2013, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBOOMER View Post
No he should have stayed on the back foot and trout come to him and lead him into exchanges then slide out and reset. I only saw a round or two of the fight but it looked like cotto was coming to him and that's bad vs a fighter with longer reach and better speed who can catch you comming in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmH Reborn View Post
Just watching this fight on its own merits, Cotto had the most success when Trout was inching forward. All of Cotto's best shots came when Trout was moving forward.

Trout stylistically was better with Cotto coming in, so the role reversal served Cotto better in this fight.

But on the average, your original point stands
Agree with both of these. Cotto did his best work when Trout was moving forward.
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