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#41
Old 12-31-2012, 06:25 PM
raskat
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Originally Posted by rat burger View Post
Wilde like another certain Welsh bum who slaps is a joke and his record is sugar coated with losing record opposition but I suppose if Welsh fanboys want to masturbate to the fantasy of Calzaghe or Wilde fighting anyone of significance in their prime .. then I guess thats up top you
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS View Post
This is the way of the Welsh. From Wilde to Calzaghe to Nathan Cleverly!
hey guys, let him think what he wants. Jimmy Wilde is his hero and if he thinks Wilde had 200 wins against top opponents which aren't listed on boxrec, let him think that. Tomorrow he will probably say Calzaghe also has 50 wins against high level opponents which aren't listed on boxrec....
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#42
Old 12-31-2012, 09:53 PM
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I'm not looking to jump into anyone elses fight, but I can verify with certainty that box-rec has incomplete records with past and (especially) foreign boxers.

Of course I wasn't around when Wilde fought, but I've seen glaring ommissions from much later than that. Box-rec is a useful research tool. But it isn't as complete as most people think.
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#43
Old 12-31-2012, 11:01 PM
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I'd probably say Welsh.

Raskat may not be going the right way I'm saying it, but he's right. Wilde is overrated.
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#44
Old 01-01-2013, 05:59 AM
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Wat no Tommy Farr?
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#45
Old 01-01-2013, 06:38 AM
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I agree that Wilde is overrated. I personally don't think he's the number 1 Flyweight of all time. He might have been very good, great according to some, but from I what I know, which may not be much, I think he's highly overrated and doesn't deserve his number 1 rating nearly as much as some other great Flyweights.

Obviously Boxrec is going to have some incomplete records. It goes without saying. However, any major fights between two top fighters of the times will have been recorded and I'd venture a guess that all of Wilde's major fights against the best he fought are recorded.

As for the greatest Welsh fighter. Would probably have to be Welsh wouldn't it.
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#46
Old 01-01-2013, 07:06 AM
raskat
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Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
I agree that Wilde is overrated. I personally don't think he's the number 1 Flyweight of all time. He might have been very good, great according to some, but from I what I know, which may not be much, I think he's highly overrated and doesn't deserve his number 1 rating nearly as much as some other great Flyweights.

Obviously Boxrec is going to have some incomplete records. It goes without saying. However, any major fights between two top fighters of the times will have been recorded and I'd venture a guess that all of Wilde's major fights against the best he fought are recorded.

As for the greatest Welsh fighter. Would probably have to be Welsh wouldn't it.
exactly. That is what I also said: Of course it is possible that Wilde fought a lot more guys than boxrec shows, but if he would have fought top guys, I am pretty sure we would see it on boxrec. I mean, Gene Tunney may also have a few more fights than boxrec shows, but I don't think he fought Harry Greb more often than boxrec shows. Meaning, a fight between 2 top fighters wouldn't disappear out of the history books so fast.
That being said, the 90 % of the people Wilde fought have horrible records, I mean total horrendous losing records. And I don't mean that disrespectful to Wilde or his opponents, but when we are talking about "The greatest Flyweight of all time", we gotta really talk about the truth instead of denying it.
The fact that Wilde fought 150 times or maybe even more often is astonishing in itself and somehow makes him "a legend", yet at the same time we have to look deeper into his record when pple call him "The greatest Flyweight ever".
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#47
Old 01-01-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by raskat View Post
exactly. That is what I also said: Of course it is possible that Wilde fought a lot more guys than boxrec shows, but if he would have fought top guys, I am pretty sure we would see it on boxrec. I mean, Gene Tunney may also have a few more fights than boxrec shows, but I don't think he fought Harry Greb more often than boxrec shows. Meaning, a fight between 2 top fighters wouldn't disappear out of the history books so fast.
That being said, the 90 % of the people Wilde fought have horrible records, I mean total horrendous losing records. And I don't mean that disrespectful to Wilde or his opponents, but when we are talking about "The greatest Flyweight of all time", we gotta really talk about the truth instead of denying it.
The fact that Wilde fought 150 times or maybe even more often is astonishing in itself and somehow makes him "a legend", yet at the same time we have to look deeper into his record when pple call him "The greatest Flyweight ever".
How can you say 90% of the people Wilde fought had horrible records when they're incomplete?

Wilde fought the best flyweights around at that time does he compare to Canto? No. I have no problem with someone rating Wilde 5th greatest flyweight of all time, I myself probably wouldn't rate him #1. But you don't even know what you're looking at when you see Wilde's resume, why are you so transfixed with incomplete records?

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#48
Old 01-01-2013, 10:33 AM
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Wilde is overrated

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#49
Old 01-02-2013, 12:14 PM
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I love how this turned into an is Wilde overrated thread. Also love the implication that cos Joe Calzaghe didn't fight stellar opposition all Welsh boxers must surely be hypejobs.

I think the 1st 90+ opponents on Wilde's offical record should be ignored. His early winning streak should in no way be used as evidence of his "greatness" but neither should it be used to critise him. He does not have a sugar coated resume. It's not like the modern boxing game, he did not cherry-pick bums to bolster his CV and try to con his way into big paydays. He took on all comers, anyone willing to fight him, cos that was the only way he had to make money.

Whether it was 80 or 800 doesn't really matter. What matters is he did step up when he had the chance and he did beat the best that the fledgling weight class had to offer. And he did it in a manner that had his contemporaries raving about his talent. Not sure what more he could have done. His CV may not be the strongest but I think it's still stronger than any other flyweight in history, apart from Miguel Canto.

I wasn't asking whether Wilde was the GOAT anyway. Just whether he was the Welsh goat. (There's a sheep shagger joke in there somewhere)

I notice not much has actually been said in this thread about Freddie Welsh. Seriiously that guy was good. He may not just be the Welsh GOAT he may be the British GOAT. Depending on where you stand on Bob Fitzsimmons' nationality.


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