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#11
Old 12-30-2012, 07:22 PM
GrandpaBernard
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This is a good point, never thought about that.

Anyway to answer the OP, the reason he isn't discussed more than he is in ATG conversations is because ATG status is not about ability it is about accomplishment, and Tyson is in many ways a story of unfulfilled potential. Champions are usually highly ranked because of who they beat or how long they reigned, or a fair combo of those two things. Tyson lost or never fought all the most formidable fighters of his era ( Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe). He held the true title (the Lineal title) for around 20 months, lost to a guy who was one grade up from a Boxing journeyman, and then never captured the lineal title again.

Again, a discussion of all time great ability would be different.
I appreciate all the responses explaining Tyson's status regarding ATGdom, especially yours. It always bothered me how there was basically no talk about him as an ATG, even though he's this great beast and arguably the most famous boxer of all time. Kind of crazy how Mike who is a beloved "warrior" in the eyes of most fans actually has thin accomplishments compared to ATGs.
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#12
Old 12-30-2012, 07:44 PM
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Shows what the "fanatics" actually know!! Take the Tyson, Mayweather and Pac fans out of the equation and you have an intelligent conversation on boxing!! I guess the Hopkins fans are pretty close to %t2Smi also!! HA! Ray


correction; "warriors" don't bite to get out of a fight, its called QUITTING!
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#13
Old 12-30-2012, 07:52 PM
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Shows what the "fanatics" actually know!! Take the Tyson, Mayweather and Pac fans out of the equation and you have an intelligent conversation on boxing!! I guess the Hopkins fans are pretty close to %t2Smi also!! HA! Ray


correction; "warriors" don't bite to get out of a fight, its called QUITTING!
Based off what I seen the way the word warrior is commonly used is based on appearances and not substance. If a fighter is aggressive and willing to trade, he gets the label. You won't see a slickstar being called a warrior even if he's a determined and strong willed with a stone heart.
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#14
Old 12-30-2012, 09:20 PM
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i think another factor that should put boxers in the ATG is the excitement they bring to a fight and i cant think of anyone more exciting in th HW devision. Its unfortunate how is career went but if you compare other great fighters of his swarming style they only have short careers and was past his prime when he fought guys like holyfield n lewis but lets face it if you put a poll for who everyone would like a ticket to see in a dream fight I think tyson would be probably be number 1 on the list and for that fact alone I think he should be rated higher in the All Time Greats

....or a poll: who would you least like to get in a ring with?

Last edited by likeamulekick; 12-30-2012 at 09:27 PM.
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#15
Old 12-30-2012, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by likeamulekick View Post
....or a poll: who would you least like to get in a ring with?

It wouldn't be Tyson. He'd blow me away with the first punch he landed.

Now someone like a mean, hungry 135 lb Duran might keep me standing just to punish me more if he were in a foul mood. I wouldn't be the only person he ever did that to.
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#16
Old 12-31-2012, 05:08 AM
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01 Joe Louis
02 Muhammad Ali

03 Larry Holmes
04 George Foreman

05 Rocky Marciano
06 Joe Frazier
07 Evander Holyfield

08 Mike Tyson
09 Lennox Lewis
10 Jack Johnson

11 Wlad

12 Jack Dempsey
13 Sonny Liston

14 Jim Jeffries
15 Max Schmeling
16 Riddick Bowe

17 Harry Wills
18 Floyd Patterson
19 Jersey Joe walcott
20 Ezzard Charles

21 Vitali
22 John L
23 Peter Jackson
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#17
Old 01-01-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
It wouldn't be Tyson. He'd blow me away with the first punch he landed.

Now someone like a mean, hungry 135 lb Duran might keep me standing just to punish me more if he were in a foul mood. I wouldn't be the only person he ever did that to.
reeeeeally??? I think if you had both guys standing in front of you to choose from you wouldnt be thinking logically and logically som1s more likely to go to hospital. Larry Merchant might be concussed by your flying head

Last edited by likeamulekick; 01-01-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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#18
Old 01-01-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by likeamulekick View Post
reeeeeally??? I think if you had both guys standing in front of you to choose from you wouldnt be thinking logically and logically som1s more likely to go to hospital. Larry Merchant might be concussed by your flying head
I'll put it like this. I have no fear of dying. But I do fear suffering.
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#19
Old 01-01-2013, 04:32 PM
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I'll put it like this. I have no fear of dying. But I do fear suffering.
fair enough, id think youd be the exception. Saying that though i just made a thread about that to see and was surprised no one chose tyson, apparently there more scared of being humiliated by a pernell whitaker than having there head caved in. confused
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#20
Old 01-02-2013, 11:04 PM
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Few things to address:

Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion, Patterson was the youngest undisputed heavyweight champion. There was only one heavyweight title when Patterson fought but multiple belts when Tyson was around. Mike beat a champion in Trevor Berbick to win his title, that makes him a champion. He became undisputed champion at the age of 21, making him the second youngest undisputed champion ever.

P4P lists are mostly nonsense and can't apply to guys like Tyson who has only fought at heavyweight. The heavyweight championship is the greatest prize in the sport which makes it the focal point of boxing. The lower divisions have had some great fighters but the heavyweights reign alone in this matter. This is just my opinion though and I don't expect many to agree with this.

Tyson biting Holyfield was not him quitting ... he was pissed at hell that nothing was being done about his intentional - not incidental or accidental- but intentional headbutts. He won the first fight because of them and when Tyson gained some momentum he resumed the same disgraceful, cheating tactic from the first fight. Mike wasn't going to take it anymore and lost it.

That isn't "quitting" or looking for a way out like what Vitali Klitschko or Zab Judah have done ... Tyson even commented in the post fight interview that he wanted to fight.
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