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#21
Old 12-25-2012, 02:28 AM
BennyST
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Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
I'm not even sure Sergio, if he retired today, would be in the Hall of Fame. I mean he has like 4-5 good wins against Pavlik, Williams, Dzinziruk, Macklin, and Chavez.

Corrales won titles in multiple weight classes and had about 6 good wins over R. Garcia, Gainer, Manfredy, Casamayor, Castillo, and Freitas, and he's pretty borderline on whether or not he'll end up getting in.

Castillo was a 2x LW champ and recognized as the best LW of his era. He had wins over Johnston, Bazan, J. Diaz, Casamayor, Corrales, Lazcano, and arguably a win over Mayweather. And he's seen as borderline.
Exactly. Martinez is a one time champ, with some decent wins.

Those guys you mentioned are borderline HOFers. It's arguable whether they are good enough to get in at all and in comparison, they are multiple time, multiple division champs with wins over some excellent champions. Compared to guys like Freitas, Casamayor, Castillo and Gainer, the Macklin, Chavez and Dzinziruk wins don't stack up too well.

The only real champion among all of Martinez' wins is Pavlik. The other couple were either given titles, literally, or won a paper title here as there. Just having Casamayor, Corrales and Johnston is better than all of Martinez entire combined record sadly.

If he'd been able to get going much earlier and had been this good, then it's possible he could have gotten into the HOF. But it's for the greatest fighters that have ever fought across boxings entire history. It's reserved for the true stand outs that made history as being well and truly above the rest of the field. The Duran's, Ali's, Robinsons, Leonard's, to today's best like Hopkins, Pac, Marquez, Mayweather, Jones, Toney, Holyfield, Lewis etc.

Think about what it's taken for Marquez to get into the HOF, then be considered an ATG. He's been beating champions as good and better than what Martinez has beaten for well over a decade and its only in his recent years, maybe the last five years, that people have started saying he's a HOFer and ATG.

Think about this people; Marquez had beaten more champions than Martinez, lost less fights and also become champion by 2003. That's nearly ten years ago now.

By the time he started getting talked about as a HOFer, he was a two division, three time champion with over twice as many champions beaten as Martinez.

The point being is that it takes a lot more than what he's done, a lot more, to be considered a HOFer and way, way more to be considered a proper ATG.

It took Marquez beating Barrera, along with 8 or so other champions beaten before that (Martinez has only beaten 5 champions in his entire career so far, only 5, Marquez had beaten that many literally ten years ago), and becoming a two division, three time champion to be considered a HOFer. It took him becoming a three division champion (should be four now if Bradley didn't rob Pac), the oldest ever lineal lightweight champion, another 5 or so champions after Barrera, including fighting the two best p4p fighters of the last decade, and knocking out an 8 division ATG in his prime to be considered an ATG himself.

Just think about that. Marquez beat his first champ in 1996 compared to 2009 (actually 2010 officially) for Martinez. Now think of everything that Marquez has done since 1996. That's what it takes to become an ATG with the long history in this sport.

Martinez hasn't even scratched the surface.

Last edited by BennyST; 12-25-2012 at 02:32 AM.
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#22
Old 12-25-2012, 02:28 AM
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I'm a huge fan of Sergio, but I don't know man. I think he only has one actual blemish on his record (margarito when he was just a pup) but he started so late that I think he may not get enough big wins to be an all time great. But he has all time great talent that's for damn sure. Not sure his body will hold up long enough to find and win enough big fights. I see guys dodging him until he looks ripe for the taking.
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#23
Old 12-25-2012, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
I'm not even sure Sergio, if he retired today, would be in the Hall of Fame. I mean he has like 4-5 good wins against Pavlik, Williams, Dzinziruk, Macklin, and Chavez.

Corrales won titles in multiple weight classes and had about 6 good wins over R. Garcia, Gainer, Manfredy, Casamayor, Castillo, and Freitas, and he's pretty borderline on whether or not he'll end up getting in.

Castillo was a 2x LW champ and recognized as the best LW of his era. He had wins over Johnston, Bazan, J. Diaz, Casamayor, Corrales, Lazcano, and arguably a win over Mayweather. And he's seen as borderline.
i agree with this
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#24
Old 12-25-2012, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dan_cov View Post
I do think he could of gave most ATG middleweights absolute fits!
This ^^^^^^

Resume doesn't always tell the whole story.
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#25
Old 12-25-2012, 02:42 AM
MVOLT
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This ^^^^^^

Resume doesn't always tell the whole story.
Hagler,Hopkins,SRR all beat his ass with relative ease
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#26
Old 12-25-2012, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MVOLT View Post
Hagler,Hopkins,SRR all beat his ass with relative ease
Sarcasm, right?
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#27
Old 12-25-2012, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sk819 View Post
I believe so. the reason i like martinez is he represents all that is good about boxing. he isnt a paper champ, he fought his way to the top. he doesnt get the media coverage alot of overrated bums gets. he represents the struggle

notable wins:

kermit cintron (i dont care what boxrec says, he won)
paul williams
kelly pavlik
dzinziruk
barker
macklin
chavez
murray (soon to be)
not yet, and the clock is ticking on the end of his career as he's pretty old (in boxing years). i know he doesn't have as much mileage as somebody like Marquez but age is age
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#28
Old 12-25-2012, 02:59 AM
MVOLT
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Sarcasm, right?
Do you know who Hopkins is? or about his MW Run ?........Hopkins MW Reign>>>Martinez's ENTIRE CAREER

Last edited by MVOLT; 12-25-2012 at 04:24 AM.
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#29
Old 12-25-2012, 04:22 AM
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No, not yet at least. No HOF's and no ATG in his résumé, just one of the best in his era. If he moves up and be dominant at super middleweight Then yeah, other than that he has Floyd.
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#30
Old 12-25-2012, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
Exactly. Martinez is a one time champ, with some decent wins.

Those guys you mentioned are borderline HOFers. It's arguable whether they are good enough to get in at all and in comparison, they are multiple time, multiple division champs with wins over some excellent champions. Compared to guys like Freitas, Casamayor, Castillo and Gainer, the Macklin, Chavez and Dzinziruk wins don't stack up too well.

The only real champion among all of Martinez' wins is Pavlik. The other couple were either given titles, literally, or won a paper title here as there. Just having Casamayor, Corrales and Johnston is better than all of Martinez entire combined record sadly.

If he'd been able to get going much earlier and had been this good, then it's possible he could have gotten into the HOF. But it's for the greatest fighters that have ever fought across boxings entire history. It's reserved for the true stand outs that made history as being well and truly above the rest of the field. The Duran's, Ali's, Robinsons, Leonard's, to today's best like Hopkins, Pac, Marquez, Mayweather, Jones, Toney, Holyfield, Lewis etc.

Think about what it's taken for Marquez to get into the HOF, then be considered an ATG. He's been beating champions as good and better than what Martinez has beaten for well over a decade and its only in his recent years, maybe the last five years, that people have started saying he's a HOFer and ATG.

Think about this people; Marquez had beaten more champions than Martinez, lost less fights and also become champion by 2003. That's nearly ten years ago now.

By the time he started getting talked about as a HOFer, he was a two division, three time champion with over twice as many champions beaten as Martinez.

The point being is that it takes a lot more than what he's done, a lot more, to be considered a HOFer and way, way more to be considered a proper ATG.

It took Marquez beating Barrera, along with 8 or so other champions beaten before that (Martinez has only beaten 5 champions in his entire career so far, only 5, Marquez had beaten that many literally ten years ago), and becoming a two division, three time champion to be considered a HOFer. It took him becoming a three division champion (should be four now if Bradley didn't rob Pac), the oldest ever lineal lightweight champion, another 5 or so champions after Barrera, including fighting the two best p4p fighters of the last decade, and knocking out an 8 division ATG in his prime to be considered an ATG himself.

Just think about that. Marquez beat his first champ in 1996 compared to 2009 (actually 2010 officially) for Martinez. Now think of everything that Marquez has done since 1996. That's what it takes to become an ATG with the long history in this sport.

Martinez hasn't even scratched the surface.
You might call him a "one time champ" but he's been the lineal champ at middleweight for about 3 years (and counting...) now. He was also the #1 ranked fighter at JMW before moving up to middleweight.

By the way, how is it that a guy like Genaro Hernandez (who got KO'd by ODH and PBF and who's biggest win was a robbery against Azumah Nelson and only held a title in one division) makes it into the HOF and Martinez is supposedly not even a borderline hall of fame?
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