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#31
Old 12-22-2012, 08:13 AM
gmc_rfc_06
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His legacy looks fine to me.

Williams, Pavlik, Chavez, Dzinziruk, Macklin, Barker....not bad for 3 years of work when the big names don't want to fight you. He called for Pacquiao, Mayweather, Cotto, Canelo and any other big name - he can't get them to answer the call.
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#32
Old 12-22-2012, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gmc_rfc_06 View Post
His legacy looks fine to me.

Williams, Pavlik, Chavez, Dzinziruk, Macklin, Barker....not bad for 3 years of work when the big names don't want to fight you. He called for Pacquiao, Mayweather, Cotto, Canelo and any other big name - he can't get them to answer the call.
Lol...

Macklin & Barker do nothing for Martinez, Chavez Jr isn't good either. Dzinziruk wasn't a top win but he did put in a solid performance. Pavlik & Williams came at the start of his career at the top and has since stagnated.

Forget about Cotto and the best in the sport around his division, he should be fighting the best in his division. I don't buy the excuse that no one wants to fight him.
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#33
Old 12-22-2012, 09:43 AM
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Lol...

Macklin & Barker do nothing for Martinez, Chavez Jr isn't good either. Dzinziruk wasn't a top win but he did put in a solid performance. Pavlik & Williams came at the start of his career at the top and has since stagnated.

Forget about Cotto and the best in the sport around his division, he should be fighting the best in his division. I don't buy the excuse that no one wants to fight him.
I disagee on Macklin and Chavez. I think Macklin was a good win and I think Chavez was a very good win. He isn't a great fighter, but giving up that much weight to a big, powerful, undefeated fighter and putting on a clinic is very impressive.

His own division doesn't have many names unfortunetly, people consider GGG to be the next best and he's not got a single notable win. Pirog has vanished, Sturm no longer has a belt, Geale is tied up, he's already beat Chavez and Macklin - that leaves Quillin (also tied up), Murray and N;Dam from the top 10.
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#34
Old 12-22-2012, 09:51 AM
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Martinez you useless bum, hahaha!!!
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#35
Old 12-22-2012, 10:06 AM
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I disagee on Macklin and Chavez. I think Macklin was a good win and I think Chavez was a very good win. He isn't a great fighter, but giving up that much weight to a big, powerful, undefeated fighter and putting on a clinic is very impressive.

His own division doesn't have many names unfortunetly, people consider GGG to be the next best and he's not got a single notable win. Pirog has vanished, Sturm no longer has a belt, Geale is tied up, he's already beat Chavez and Macklin - that leaves Quillin (also tied up), Murray and N;Dam from the top 10.
Chavez is certainly not a 'very good win'. I consider Pavlik and Williams very good wins, what has Jr done? Same with Macklin, virtually a domestic fighter. A lot of Martinez's resume rests on what they will do after he fought them, rather than what they had already accomplished. Martinez's schooling of Chavez Jr proved how inexperienced and green the kid is.

Golovkin doesn't have any big wins but he's a champion and a much more respected fighter than Macklin/Chavez Jr/Barker/Murray. In fairness the middleweight division isn't a strong one but there were and are better possible fights than the 3 Brits he's fought. I wonder if he can still make 154.

He needs a big '13.
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#36
Old 12-22-2012, 10:34 AM
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Chavez is certainly not a 'very good win'. I consider Pavlik and Williams very good wins, what has Jr done? Same with Macklin, virtually a domestic fighter. A lot of Martinez's resume rests on what they will do after he fought them, rather than what they had already accomplished. Martinez's schooling of Chavez Jr proved how inexperienced and green the kid is.

Golovkin doesn't have any big wins but he's a champion and a much more respected fighter than Macklin/Chavez Jr/Barker/Murray. In fairness the middleweight division isn't a strong one but there were and are better possible fights than the 3 Brits he's fought. I wonder if he can still make 154.

He needs a big '13.
The only reason the Macklin fight happened is because the vast majority believe he should have also been a champion at that time instead of Sturm, he also had a very solid fan base. I think the Williams win was great, I consider both the Pavlik and Chavez wins to be equally very good. Chavez's size can't be underestimated, it was a huge disparity and he was coming off of wins against Zbik and Rubio which were nice (Zbik being debatable though).

If he can make 154 then the potential for a big year increases, but of not and he's stuck at 160 Golovkin is the only really interesting fight and he's proved less than Chavez. Outside of that, there's little to nothing at 160.
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#37
Old 12-22-2012, 10:41 AM
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The only reason the Macklin fight happened is because the vast majority believe he should have also been a champion at that time instead of Sturm, he also had a very solid fan base. I think the Williams win was great, I consider both the Pavlik and Chavez wins to be equally very good. Chavez's size can't be underestimated, it was a huge disparity and he was coming off of wins against Zbik and Rubio which were nice (Zbik being debatable though).

If he can make 154 then the potential for a big year increases, but of not and he's stuck at 160 Golovkin is the only really interesting fight and he's proved less than Chavez. Outside of that, there's little to nothing at 160.
That isn't the reason the Macklin fight happened, it was just used to make the fight seem more plausible. In all fairness, Macklin is doing a decent job over in the States now and the Alcine win is a big plus to his resume.

Sorry but I think it's absolutely absurd to compare Chavez & Pavlik and call them 'equally very good'. You already know my stance on Chavez Jr but to compare him to the man, at that time, at 160?

Nonsense.
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#38
Old 12-22-2012, 10:50 AM
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That isn't the reason the Macklin fight happened, it was just used to make the fight seem more plausible. In all fairness, Macklin is doing a decent job over in the States now and the Alcine win is a big plus to his resume.

Sorry but I think it's absolutely absurd to compare Chavez & Pavlik and call them 'equally very good'. You already know my stance on Chavez Jr but to compare him to the man, at that time, at 160?

Nonsense.
Him coming off what was seen as a robbery in a world title fight is what got him the Martinez fight. Had Sturm got that W in a legit manner then Macklin wouldn't have got Martinez, I don't believe so anyway.

Regarding Pavlik, I would have had that as another great win had it happened pre-Hopkins. Pavlik still looked good at 160, but my belief is that Hopkins took something from him and then Sergio finished the job by taking the rest.

I also don't think Chavez is anywhere near as bad as some suggest. By no means is he great, but he#s a solid fighter. A solid fighter with a HUGE size advantage, a granite chin and real power is a difficult one. Chavez could give any other fighter at 160 a real fight, if not beat them.
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#39
Old 12-22-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by D-MiZe View Post
That isn't the reason the Macklin fight happened, it was just used to make the fight seem more plausible. In all fairness, Macklin is doing a decent job over in the States now and the Alcine win is a big plus to his resume.

Sorry but I think it's absolutely absurd to compare Chavez & Pavlik and call them 'equally very good'. You already know my stance on Chavez Jr but to compare him to the man, at that time, at 160?

Nonsense.
Macklin was ranked #2 by the Ring at the time, only behind Sturm who he beat.

If you have your own middleweight rankings you should send them to boxing commissions, the Ring, ESPN, Yahoo, Boxrec, and Boxingscene and I'm sure they'll update them. Goodluck.
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#40
Old 12-22-2012, 10:59 AM
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Him coming off what was seen as a robbery in a world title fight is what got him the Martinez fight. Had Sturm got that W in a legit manner then Macklin wouldn't have got Martinez, I don't believe so anyway.

Regarding Pavlik, I would have had that as another great win had it happened pre-Hopkins. Pavlik still looked good at 160, but my belief is that Hopkins took something from him and then Sergio finished the job by taking the rest.

I also don't think Chavez is anywhere near as bad as some suggest. By no means is he great, but he#s a solid fighter. A solid fighter with a HUGE size advantage, a granite chin and real power is a difficult one. Chavez could give any other fighter at 160 a real fight, if not beat them.
It's not what got him the Martinez fight. It certainly helped the creditability of the fight but even still, Macklin lacked a lot of experience at that level. The Macklin fight happened because he had everything to gain, nothing to lose. Sturm's team were probably asking for it to be in Germany and other stipulations which killed any negotiation.

Pavlik moved up to LHW and many predicted him to beat Hopkins. Hopkins definitely schooled Pavlik on the night but there was no thought of him being done, rather adding credit to Hopkins than taking much away from Pavlik.

Pavlik is probably his best win too, so you can see why I'm saying his resume is lacking. I'm not making Chavez Jr out to be a bum, he's a good contender but what has he done. I don't care what he could do, or what he's going to do - that's purely opinion. I go by fact when I judge a resume.
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