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#21
Old 12-21-2012, 06:20 PM
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I always thought that Mayweather did this for conservative reasons. To preserve his arms from wear and tear, while still keeping the reflexes sharp.

Some fighters leave the best punches in the gym and don't have it on fight time. Or at the very least, their mitt work erodes their skills over time and multiple training camps. Injuries start to build up etc,. Still, I can see how his style of doing things is useless if that's all a fighter is doing on the mitts.
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#22
Old 12-21-2012, 06:27 PM
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His mittwork is shown to improve his defense, timing and head movement, with occasional power involved. Floyd is constantly punching, so it keeps his arms/ shoulders moving while allowing him to "feel" the rythm of his opponent. Add the slipping, bobbing, and weaving, it helps his time his punches as well as evade attack during an exchange. But like i said before, dont mean squat if your fundamentals are flawed, which many people are, so imitating Floyds mitt work wont help in that respect.
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#23
Old 12-21-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuauhtémoc1520 View Post
Because Mayweather has had success, isn't something you need as evidence for the way they use the mitts. Mayweather is a GREAT fighter, one of the best of all times. If you watch Mayweather in his amateur career and in his early pro career, he wasn't fighting with his lead hand down either. He's been properly schooled, make no mistake about it. Using the Mayweather style mitts has it's place, but again as the writer put, it shouldn't be used as the primary tool and style to teach in boxing. I think that's his only point and yet you took it and ran with it. It's just a conversation and nothing to get all upset about. I personally don't use that style but have nothing against those who do as long as they are teaching the fundamentals.
His article is the equivalent to a Michael Moore documentary; it acknowledges the other side while pushing its own agenda.

I've been in plenty gyms, and most coaches don't know how to do it. What Roger, Sr. and Jeff do, isn't choreographed at all. Again, it's not choreography. If you honestly believe that it's a ballet, then I can't take you seriously.

So now it's just a basic counter-punching drill? The gumption of some people.

Read this excerpt from one of his latest posts:

First of all, the coaches don’t have to go through the grueling hard work of coaching distance, angles, and strategy when doing this Mittology stuff.* There is no randomness, bumps, clinches, spins, getting hit, punching at the same time as blocking, and there are no options (you must move in the set patterns).* Second, it is still exciting and fun, yet it has the incomparable variable of being safe.* It’s like the TaeBo of mittwork – the people, even actual boxers, think they’re really getting authentic boxing mittwork, but they’re getting more of a workout as opposed to real moves and real education.

Can you read between the lines? Probably not, let me help you…. it's doesn't matter who the trainer is, it could be a robot doing this style of mitt work, but the writer (or supposed boxing coach) is stating that it's the style of mitt work.

Just in that paragraph, I can tell that this "coach" doesn't know how to actually perform the mitt work or if he has, he's been watching youtube videos or better yet, Coach Rick, and he's been doing it wrong himself. If he'd watched the John Brown dvd, Mastering the Mitts, Roger breaks it down pretty thoroughly (despite not being too clear or holding anybody's hand and walking them through it). He even goes into how to perform a basic pivot, pivot off the roll, touch to measure the right hand, how to parry, catch, pull, and slip punches.

Now, to be fair, I'm glad he made this post about "mittology" by the "mittologist." I, too, find that this goof is exploiting the whole Mayweather technique (which happened to be used way before the Mayweather's came along) in order to get paid and it's pathetic. It's terrible that this guy wants to commercialize this style of mitt work when his peers have the decency to accept that each fighter varies and fits a specific style of fighting. With that being said, to assume that the basic 1-2-3-4 method is the best way, is merely an opinion, not an absolute.

Funny how as soon as coach post a couple threads of pac training and what possible mistakes there can be in his method, there's a thread about Mayweather's with a link to an almost two-year-old article with an agenda. That's almost as pathetic as the "mittology" dvd.

Last edited by deejd; 12-22-2012 at 01:07 AM.
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#24
Old 12-21-2012, 08:33 PM
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If anyone is interested this DVD shows Jeff Mayweather's mitt routine.





And here is the John Brown "Mastering the Mitts" DVD that has Roger on it taking some kids through the mitt work.




Purchase those and let the money go to the originals not to the copy cats.
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#25
Old 12-21-2012, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuauhtémoc1520 View Post
http://shootafairone.wordpress.com/2...work-all-show/

Great article and this basically reflects the way I feel about it. I highlighted a good part of it here:
I agree. Nobody should do any type of Reactive, Defense, Rhythym, Timing work. I have thought about and especially after reading this article, it's pointless. That's why they have double end bags and speed bags. I think from now on I am just gonna send athletes to the various bags and punching devices for 4 rounds a piece. While they are working I will occasionally come up and give instructions. That method has made 4 of 5 people that enter the gym a champion. I get it now, If it aint broke, don't fix it.
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#26
Old 12-22-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BarryRobinson View Post
I agree. Nobody should do any type of Reactive, Defense, Rhythym, Timing work. I have thought about and especially after reading this article, it's pointless. That's why they have double end bags and speed bags. I think from now on I am just gonna send athletes to the various bags and punching devices for 4 rounds a piece. While they are working I will occasionally come up and give instructions. That method has made 4 of 5 people that enter the gym a champion. I get it now, If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Barry,

I understand the goal of "Mayweather style" mitt work, however I do not understand why the exact same principles cannot be used whilst using proper punching technique and power.

Would it not be more effective if:

1) The boxer used proper punching form / power ?
2) The pad holder (I'm reluctant to use the word coach as for some I have seen this term would be clearly inaccurate) didn't move the pads to meet the incoming punches (how often does an opponent move his head / body into incoming punches?)?
3) The pad holder actually threw shots back aiming for the boxer rather than tapping him on the shoulder (as most pad holders I have watched do)?

On the whole, the combinations / defenses that most of the "Mayweather Style" pad holders use are sound and I often use similar sequences myself during pad work. However, I make sure the boxer throws punches using correct form / and power (obviously sometimes things are done slower / with out power whilst learning the sequence), I make sure I throw shots back at a realistic speed and with intent to hit the boxer with some force so he must move his head. I make sure the power is there especially when the boxer has to catch my hook to replicate the effect this has on their balance (obviously I take the sting off it if I see they aren't going to catch it - I don't want to hurt them) - those taps I see on videos do not replicate how a shot landing on the guard affect balance.

Now I can see the reasons why an accomplished full-time professional boxer may use this style of mitt work - He should by now know how to punch with correct form. The "Mayweather style" pad work provides a low impact alternative / extra session to more demanding training.

However, why a coach would try and teach a novice "Mayweather style" pad work is beyond me ? Surely, you can see this is counter productive and only reinforces bad habits ?

Also, with a novice amateur boxer who gets limited pad work time with his coach, surely standard pad work would be more beneficial?

If you can put together a logically sound argument against the above then props to you, however I suspect you won't be able to and will ignore the above.
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#27
Old 12-22-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAuthority View Post
Barry,

I understand the goal of "Mayweather style" mitt work, however I do not understand why the exact same principles cannot be used whilst using proper punching technique and power.

Would it not be more effective if:

1) The boxer used proper punching form / power ?
2) The pad holder (I'm reluctant to use the word coach as for some I have seen this term would be clearly inaccurate) didn't move the pads to meet the incoming punches (how often does an opponent move his head / body into incoming punches?)?
3) The pad holder actually threw shots back aiming for the boxer rather than tapping him on the shoulder (as most pad holders I have watched do)?

On the whole, the combinations / defenses that most of the "Mayweather Style" pad holders use are sound and I often use similar sequences myself during pad work. However, I make sure the boxer throws punches using correct form / and power (obviously sometimes things are done slower / with out power whilst learning the sequence), I make sure I throw shots back at a realistic speed and with intent to hit the boxer with some force so he must move his head. I make sure the power is there especially when the boxer has to catch my hook to replicate the effect this has on their balance (obviously I take the sting off it if I see they aren't going to catch it - I don't want to hurt them) - those taps I see on videos do not replicate how a shot landing on the guard affect balance.

Now I can see the reasons why an accomplished full-time professional boxer may use this style of mitt work - He should by now know how to punch with correct form. The "Mayweather style" pad work provides a low impact alternative / extra session to more demanding training.

However, why a coach would try and teach a novice "Mayweather style" pad work is beyond me ? Surely, you can see this is counter productive and only reinforces bad habits ?

Also, with a novice amateur boxer who gets limited pad work time with his coach, surely standard pad work would be more beneficial?

If you can put together a logically sound argument against the above then props to you, however I suspect you won't be able to and will ignore the above.
I agree with you. I have seen the error of my ways. I never teach technique. The only thing I have done my whole career is Reactive Pad Work. I always disregard footwork, balance, film study, visualization, psychology etc.. Well I'm glad I'm on this forum. I have now seen that me only doing reactive mitts is not good. I want to delete my YouTube channel. Frankly I'm embarrassed. This article, your comment, and the other comments are on point. I wa wrong. You win
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#28
Old 12-22-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BarryRobinson View Post
I agree with you. I have seen the error of my ways. I never teach technique. The only thing I have done my whole career is Reactive Pad Work. I always disregard footwork, balance, film study, visualization, psychology etc.. Well I'm glad I'm on this forum. I have now seen that me only doing reactive mitts is not good. I want to delete my YouTube channel. Frankly I'm embarrassed. This article, your comment, and the other comments are on point. I wa wrong. You win
That's lame.

What advantages are their to using incorrect form?

What advantages are their to the pad man moving the pad into incoming punches?

What does the shoulder tap do?

What are the advantages of the pad man aiming shot to the side of the head? Does it help the boxer improve his defense?

What are the advantages the tip - tap shots from the pad holder? Does this help the fighter understand how to maintain balance during defense?
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#29
Old 12-22-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TheAuthority View Post
That's lame.

What advantages are their to using incorrect form?

What advantages are their to the pad man moving the pad into incoming punches?

What does the shoulder tap do?

What are the advantages of the pad man aiming shot to the side of the head? Does it help the boxer improve his defense?

What are the advantages the tip - tap shots from the pad holder? Does this help the fighter understand how to maintain balance during defense?
Because every elite fighter has perfect textbook form. I wish Pernell Whitaker wasn't so textbook. It would have been nice if Sugar Ray Leonard or Muhammad Ali brought a different style to the game, but they only used earmuffs and rattled off 1-2 combos.

You know what else would be cool? If fighters just played chess in the ring and didn't come in face first. Margarito never walks into punches, ask Shane Mosley. Pac never got stopped walking into a right hand, if only JMM had learned how to throw the counter right. James Kirkland is a defensive counter-puncher, he never walks into punches.

James Toney and Mayweather just like when people, not boxing trainers, but people, just tap them on the shoulder to get their attention. I guess it's just a coincidence that when guys they fight against throw right hands at them, they roll their shoulder.

Pathetic.
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#30
Old 12-22-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by deejd View Post
Because every elite fighter has perfect textbook form. I wish Pernell Whitaker wasn't so textbook. It would have been nice if Sugar Ray Leonard or Muhammad Ali brought a different style to the game, but they only used earmuffs and rattled off 1-2 combos.

You know what else would be cool? If fighters just played chess in the ring and didn't come in face first. Margarito never walks into punches, ask Shane Mosley. Pac never got stopped walking into a right hand, if only JMM had learned how to throw the counter right. James Kirkland is a defensive counter-puncher, he never walks into punches.

James Toney and Mayweather just like when people, not boxing trainers, but people, just tap them on the shoulder to get their attention. I guess it's just a coincidence that when guys they fight against throw right hands at them, they roll their shoulder.

Pathetic.
As far as I can tell, the above is irrelevant and has no bearing on the questions I asked.
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