Was RJJ too fast at MW to be beaten by anyone?

[THE REED™]

Sup wmute..

[wmute]

Originally Posted by THE REED™

Sup wmute..

sup reed! will pm you now

[joseph5620]

Originally Posted by wmute

Fighters learn by doing and Hopkins did not have 1 mln am bouts, but f-ck numbers and arguments...

just watch Hopkins at the time (pick the first Marcado fight or some other guy, i think everything is on yt now) and watch Hopkins against Echols or Johnson (first ones coming to my mind). You don't see any improvement, not even in positioning and accuracy? or in his ability to constantly foul without getting caught?

Obviously Jones speed, movement and IQ would have always been a nightmare, and Jones improved too (to a lesser extent, as he was more experienced and had a style which relied more on physicality). IMO no way Hopkins would get the W until Jones is past it, but that does not mean that Hopkins 93 is the same as Hopkins 98-2000.

Maybe not, but Hopkins went unbeaten for a very long period of time after his fight with Jones. I have a hard time believing that he became a completely different fighter after the Jones fight. He may have improved but it doesn't take away the fact that Jones beat a great fighter that night.

[wmute]

Originally Posted by joseph5620

Maybe not, but Hopkins went unbeaten for a very long period of time after his fight with Jones. I have a hard time believing that he became a completely different fighter after the Jones fight. He may have improved but it doesn't take away the fact that Jones beat a great fighter that night.

and did I ever say otherwise?

[SCtrojansbaby]

Originally Posted by wmute

Fighters learn by doing and Hopkins did not have 1 mln am bouts, but f-ck numbers and arguments...

just watch Hopkins at the time (pick the first Marcado fight or some other guy, i think everything is on yt now) and watch Hopkins against Echols or Johnson (first ones coming to my mind). You don't see any improvement, not even in positioning and accuracy? or in his ability to constantly foul without getting caught?

Obviously Jones speed, movement and IQ would have always been a nightmare, and Jones improved too (to a lesser extent, as he was more experienced and had a style which relied more on physicality). IMO no way Hopkins would get the W until Jones is past it, but that does not mean that Hopkins 93 is the same as Hopkins 98-2000.

Hopkins was 28
had 23 pro fights
3rd full year as a pro
and most importantly Hopkins didn't lose again for 12 years after fighting Roy.

You can't just arbitrarily say when someone improved. Sure if they fought and Hopkins was 20 years old and in his 11th pro fight you can say he definitely improved. If he was losing to scrubs at the time you can say he improved. If he got a new trainer maybe you can say he improved. None of those things are the case. You are correct that Hopkins style changed though

1990-2001 - B-Hop was an aggressive KO artist

2001-2005 - super cautious counter puncher

2006-present - light heavyweight who likes to maul guys on the inside

3 different styles but still an equally good fighter

[wmute]

Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby

Hopkins was 28
had 23 pro fights
3rd full year as a pro
and most importantly Hopkins didn't lose again for 12 years after fighting Roy.

You can't just arbitrarily say when someone improved. Sure if they fought and Hopkins was 20 years old and in his 11th pro fight you can say he definitely improved. If he was losing to scrubs at the time you can say he improved. If he got a new trainer maybe you can say he improved. None of those things are the case. You are correct that Hopkins style changed though

1990-2001 - B-Hop was an aggressive KO artist

2001-2005 - super cautious counter puncher

2006-present - light heavyweight who likes to maul guys on the inside

3 different styles but still an equally good fighter

Hopkins kept improving until 97 more or less. In 2003-04 he starts declining. You just need to watch the fights. If you do not see that, get yourself a better pair of glasses.

[fight_professor]

Related question combining my 2 threads, P4P, do you reckon prime RJJ > prime Floyd Mayweather?

[SCtrojansbaby]

Originally Posted by fight_professor

Related question combining my 2 threads, P4P, do you reckon prime RJJ > prime Floyd Mayweather?

Yes not even close

[CHEECH]

jones in his prime was 175. not as unhittable as Floyd but far more destructive. check the one shot body punch stop of virgil hill n the slaughter of griffin. also the beating laid on telesco. as to the original question, at 160 jones was wicked fast as he always was but he was just barely good enough to outpoint a very raw Hopkins. Hopkins had a steady improvement thru his career. put it this way, the Hopkins who wore down john david Jackson was a far better fighter than the Hopkins who faced jones. the Hopkins who hypnotized echols n outstrategized tito woulda been even money with jones. so jones at 160 wasn't at his peak either and no he wasn't so fast that nobody could beat him at that weight. Gerald McClellan had beaten jones in the amateurs and nigel benn was a mf at 160. there's 2 rightthere woulda given jones all he could handle at 160. at 175 jones makes the top 5s n 10s of history but at middle he hadn't peak yet so he is not ranked as high

[SCtrojansbaby]

Originally Posted by CHEECH

jones in his prime was 175. not as unhittable as Floyd but far more destructive. check the one shot body punch stop of virgil hill n the slaughter of griffin. also the beating laid on telesco. as to the original question, at 160 jones was wicked fast as he always was but he was just barely good enough to outpoint a very raw Hopkins. Hopkins had a steady improvement thru his career. put it this way, the Hopkins who wore down john david Jackson was a far better fighter than the Hopkins who faced jones. the Hopkins who hypnotized echols n outstrategized tito woulda been even money with jones. so jones at 160 wasn't at his peak either and no he wasn't so fast that nobody could beat him at that weight. Gerald McClellan had beaten jones in the amateurs and nigel benn was a mf at 160. there's 2 rightthere woulda given jones all he could handle at 160. at 175 jones makes the top 5s n 10s of history but at middle he hadn't peak yet so he is not ranked as high

1. Roy won 8-5 and was in danger
2. It is a complete myth that Hopkins was raw when he fought Jones