Man shot 13 times by police

[kadyo]

I mean those officers, are they saying that the poor guy is playing dead?

[jose830]

Originally Posted by D-MiZe

First off, don't bum rush the guy and panic him. Maintain a distance and demand he drop to the floor, analyse the situation and the scene and determine whether or not he poses a threat.

I'd tell the suspect I'd shoot if he didn't put his hands on the roof of the car or in the air. If he reaches into his pocket or truck, he's getting shot once. Not 13 times.

He can make as many jerky/crazy movements as he wants with his legs, I'm only interested in his arms and legs. If he tries to run, call for back-up and pursue on foot. I'd much rather he run and get away then having to pump a clip into him and taking a human life like that. He's known to the police so he would've been picked up later that day and would still be alive.

The police officer panicked and is not fit for duty.

the officer gave him orders right away and he didn't obey and from the looks of it I don't think he was going to but I do agree with you that thirteen shots was definitely overkill...

let me ask you if he would of shot him once or even twice would you still believe the officer was wrong ?

[D-MiZe]

Originally Posted by jose830

the officer gave him orders right away and he didn't obey and from the looks of it I don't think he was going to but I do agree with you that thirteen shots was definitely overkill...

let me ask you if he would of shot him once or even twice would you still believe the officer was wrong ?

He said drop the knife and before he even finished that sentence the guy was riddled with 10 bullet holes. The officer was well out of knifing range and thus my decision to shoot at legs if he proceeded towards me with a knife.

It depends where he shoots him once or twice. If the guy turns around with a knife and he puts a bullet in his right shoulder and stomach area then it's justified. I'd do everything in my power to not kill that suspect. The very fact he identified the knife and was well out of range but still murdered him made me quite angry.

I could imagine that those 10 seconds felt like an hour when in the heat of the moment but someone like that should not be on the streets with a badge and a gun.

Training to be a police officer in America should be as vigorous as being a soldier is. There should be no error for margin when you're dealing with the lives of people, let alone those you are meant to protect and serve.

[squealpiggy]

[QUOTE=Cuauhtémoc1520;12813123]For me, I think that as a police officer you should do everything NOT to just shoot someone in their front yard.

Now let's look at what happened.

The officer was waiting for him to drive by, when he did, he approached the truck with his gun drawn. Ok, that's fine because he's a convicted felon and is a dangerous person.

I never saw him go at the cop, whether he had a knife or not is hard to tell but he didn't lunge at the police officer from what I saw. He wasn't complying in putting his hands up and I understand that could be taken that he might do something but I do think the cop overreacted somewhat coming out so aggressive ready to shoot it seemed.

The suspect tried to run. He'd already demonstrated he wasn't going to comply. He then turned around and reached into his truck after being told to show his hands. If the guy had reached into his truck and pulled out a handgun and shot the hesitating officer then we'd be watching the same video with the caption "LOL fat cop got owned, shoulda shot him".

What I didn't like about the video, is not necessarily the shooting but how many times he shot him and then continues to shoot him in the back when he was down. He just unloaded on the guy even when he was on the ground. Then they handcuff him when he's obviously either dead or dying. He wasn't moving from what I saw, and they even dragged him.

and

[quote]

Originally Posted by D-MiZe

If I were the cop I'd maintain my distance and tell the suspect to get onto the floor. If he approaches, I'd shoot at his legs.

Officers are trained to shoot at the largest mass on the target which is the torso and to keep firing until the danger is neutralised. He fired off thirteen shots in under a second, and the amount of time from the suspect hitting the ground and the officer stopping firing is about a third of that time.

We need to understand that the police is NOT judge and jury in this country. Regardless of how you feel about the person shot, or whether he was a bad person, we can't just be driving around and executing people.

Especially when they're on camera, especially when they deliberately position the car so that the camera faces the action in accordance with the training, especially when you tell him beforehand to stay where he is and show his hands.

Man what a shitty executioner.

I'm not saying the shooting wouldn't have happened or wasn't necessary, I just thought the way it went down was excessive and might have been prevented if the officer had taken a less aggressive route.

The thing about violent felons who are on the run for a violent crime and who are known to be armed is that they don't respond as well as you or I to the word "please".

Originally Posted by D-MiZe

If I were the cop I'd maintain my distance and tell the suspect to get onto the floor. If he approaches, I'd shoot at his legs. If a gun was brandished then that's a completely different story but the cop in the video was far too hasty and panicked.

People that allow their adrenaline to take over them like that should not be police officers. The fact he shot the guy so many times shows how out of control of the situation the officer was.

Everything was in accordance to police procedure with the possible exception of him going to attempt to apprehend the suspect alone. Now it's difficult to know the context of what happened here, the context of the video doesn't make it clear. Some people have said he was "waiting for the suspect" in which case I would expect at least two officers or more if it was clear that he would be violent. It's also possible, considering that this was a domestic violence case, that he was guarding the victim in which case it may be reasonable for him to be there alone.

[Tim Horton]

Originally Posted by D-MiZe

First off, don't bum rush the guy and panic him. Maintain a distance and demand he drop to the floor, analyse the situation and the scene and determine whether or not he poses a threat.

I'd tell the suspect I'd shoot if he didn't put his hands on the roof of the car or in the air. If he reaches into his pocket or truck, he's getting shot once. Not 13 times.

He can make as many jerky/crazy movements as he wants with his legs, I'm only interested in his arms and legs. If he tries to run, call for back-up and pursue on foot. I'd much rather he run and get away then having to pump a clip into him and taking a human life like that. He's known to the police so he would've been picked up later that day and would still be alive.

The police officer panicked and is not fit for duty.

nicely said and i tend to agree with this post.

[E.P.T.]

Originally Posted by jose830

he stumbled out the car because he tried to run...the officer didn't drive up to him and start shooting he gave him orders and he didn't obey remember the officer doesn't know what he has on him and once he reached for something then the officer is in danger, put yourself in his shoes and tell me that you would stand there and ask a criminal what's he reaching for.

when did running become justification for killing a man? the guy didn't even have a knife in hand, a knife was never found. this cop was clearly looking for an excuse to waste this dude. This guy is just a killer with a badge, no different than the gang banger's that go around killing their enemies.

[D-MiZe]

Police procedure says that if you feel threatened or your life is endangered, you can use a justifiable means to eliminate said threats. However, it's up to that individual to assess the situation and I must say, the officer in this clip not only failed at assessing the situation properly, he also created it.

He panicked the driver, he should've manoeuvred himself in such a way that he could see inside the truck and all of the suspect. His inability to do so and poor reading of the situation is what caused him [cop] to panic.

One of the posters pointed out his leg was caught in the seatbelt which explains his erratic movements when he exited the car and honestly if he tried to run, good. Much rather defuse the situation like that then conclude it like it did. Having said that, I remember a story of an unarmed kid running away from the cops and hiding in a shed. Only to be shot dead.

[jose830]

Originally Posted by D-MiZe

He said drop the knife and before he even finished that sentence the guy was riddled with 10 bullet holes. The officer was well out of knifing range and thus my decision to shoot at legs if he proceeded towards me with a knife.

It depends where he shoots him once or twice. If the guy turns around with a knife and he puts a bullet in his right shoulder and stomach area then it's justified. I'd do everything in my power to not kill that suspect. The very fact he identified the knife and was well out of range but still murdered him made me quite angry.

I could imagine that those 10 seconds felt like an hour when in the heat of the moment but someone like that should not be on the streets with a badge and a gun.

Training to be a police officer in America should be as vigorous as being a soldier is. There should be no error for margin when you're dealing with the lives of people, let alone those you are meant to protect and serve.

the majority of the police officers are trained to shoot but not taught the fundamentals of how to aim the reason I say that is because when I took my first NRA class on the basic steps of firearms and how to shoot with accuracy there were about three officers in that class with me and I could tell you I shot better than one of them its pretty shocking that some become cops first then they learn how to shoot...

just heard on the radio there's been a school shooting in a school in Connecticut

[squealpiggy]

Originally Posted by jose830

the majority of the police officers are trained to shoot but not taught the fundamentals of how to aim the reason I say that is because when I took my first NRA class on the basic steps of firearms and how to shoot with accuracy there were about three officers in that class with me and I could tell you I shot better than one of them its pretty shocking that some become cops first then they learn how to shoot...

The biggest problem with police and guns is that often they're not required to maintain their accuracy unless they are in a special unit. This is compounded, especially in the US, with the fact that oftentimes the force does not budget for spare ammunition for target practise. You have to rely on the cops joining a gun club in their spare time to remain current.

[jose830]

Originally Posted by squealpiggy

The biggest problem with police and guns is that often they're not required to maintain their accuracy unless they are in a special unit. This is compounded, especially in the US, with the fact that oftentimes the force does not budget for spare ammunition for target practise. You have to rely on the cops joining a gun club in their spare time to remain current.

you're 100% right...