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#101
Old 12-15-2012, 04:54 PM
Anthony342
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There you go then. The answer is Tyson was undisputed and lineal heavyweight champion. Since he doesn't have the resume of other greats or as long a prime, he's ranked on that second tier, like someone like Marciano or Walcott has been referred to being on.

Tyson's high ranking by some also has to do with the fact that he was tough, hit hard and fought everyone.
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#102
Old 12-15-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by The Surgeon View Post
Haha Haters goin hate...

Something tells me u will give em hell back though Poet lol, not one to shy away from a battle after all are u!

Mike's my favourite and i think he's a Monster H2H and does have some real quality credentials but they just cant compete with some of the Greats of the Division if im honest. Still if i had to fight a former HW champion all i know is he'd be in the very last 2 or 3 id choose!
I give as good as I get :chuckle9:

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#103
Old 12-15-2012, 06:05 PM
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No one has ever accomplished what Tyson did since his departure ... even if he reigned for a relatively "short" amount of time

-Youngest heavyweight champion ever and the second fastest after L Spinks to become champion, in terms of fights and time as a professional ... Mike became heavyweight champ after 27 fights and a year after he turned pro

-First to unify all of the heavyweight titles and become undisputed champion in an era with multiple titles ... to this day no one has ever won each of the major titles when they were completely scattered and nearly each diifferent title held by a different champions ... Wlad is the closest but hasn't won them all

-First undisputed heavyweight champion since L Spinks .. nearly a decade without an undisputed champion until Mike defeated his brother, Michael Spinks

- Was on pace to shatter most records ... Mike was en route to breaking Marciano's 49-0 record, and Joe Louis' 25 title defense record

- Came back and won two heavyweight titles even after being inactive and incarcerated for 4 years

No one else made the kind of impact that Tyson did, since his departure. He was untouchable for the 5 years he was at his best. There has never been a heavyweight the same combination of power, speed, durability, and skill.

If Tyson isn't an ATG then there are no ATG in boxing ... the plateau he reached has probably only been reached by a few fighters in history .. completely tearing through the heavyweight division like it was nothing and destroying guys effortlessly. Not to mention how prolific he was ... fighting on an average of a fight per month. Truly the LAST great heavyweight champion ever.

Last edited by TysonBomb; 12-15-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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#104
Old 12-15-2012, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
I try to achieve a synthesis between the two schools of thought. Needless to say I get flack from both sides :hahahaha9:

Poet
It's a shame when being reasonable puts you in the minority. His hardcore fans are delusional, and some people on the other side can be equally absurd.
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#105
Old 12-16-2012, 01:50 AM
Anthony342
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Originally Posted by TysonBomb View Post
No one has ever accomplished what Tyson did since his departure ... even if he reigned for a relatively "short" amount of time

-Youngest heavyweight champion ever and the second fastest after L Spinks to become champion, in terms of fights and time as a professional ... Mike became heavyweight champ after 27 fights and a year after he turned pro

-First to unify all of the heavyweight titles and become undisputed champion in an era with multiple titles ... to this day no one has ever won each of the major titles when they were completely scattered and nearly each diifferent title held by a different champions ... Wlad is the closest but hasn't won them all

-First undisputed heavyweight champion since L Spinks .. nearly a decade without an undisputed champion until Mike defeated his brother, Michael Spinks

- Was on pace to shatter most records ... Mike was en route to breaking Marciano's 49-0 record, and Joe Louis' 25 title defense record

- Came back and won two heavyweight titles even after being inactive and incarcerated for 4 years

No one else made the kind of impact that Tyson did, since his departure. He was untouchable for the 5 years he was at his best. There has never been a heavyweight the same combination of power, speed, durability, and skill.

If Tyson isn't an ATG then there are no ATG in boxing ... the plateau he reached has probably only been reached by a few fighters in history .. completely tearing through the heavyweight division like it was nothing and destroying guys effortlessly. Not to mention how prolific he was ... fighting on an average of a fight per month. Truly the LAST great heavyweight champion ever.
Well technically, didn't Douglas and then Holyfield hold all 3 (at the time) major heavyweight title belts? Douglas, after he beat Tyson and Holyfield, after beating Douglas?

And I thought Holyfield and even Lennox Lewis were considered to be great heavyweight champions as well.

Last edited by Anthony342; 12-16-2012 at 01:53 AM.
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#106
Old 12-16-2012, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony342 View Post
Well technically, didn't Douglas and then Holyfield hold all 3 (at the time) major heavyweight title belts? Douglas, after he beat Tyson and Holyfield, after beating Douglas?

And I thought Holyfield and even Lennox Lewis were considered to be great heavyweight champions as well.
yeah but they didn't consolidate them all like Mike did when each of the major belts were held by different champions.

Mike won 4 titles from 4 different champions with each champion possessing 1. Then went from a chain of succession, from Tyson to Douglas to Holyfield to Bowe ... Bowe dropped the WBC for not fighting Lewis and so Lewis picked that strap up

It gets rather long after that and the belts were all scattered again, after Tyson came back from prison. But even then when Lewis eventually won them all and became undisputed no one picked each of the belts up one by one. Lewis won two from the second Holyfield fight and already had one in his possession.

Even after Tyson came back he was still the closest to replicating his feat of picking each title up again one at a time.

Wlad may do it when Vitali retires
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#107
Old 12-16-2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Surgeon View Post
Dont do it Big, dont sh*t on my main man Mike!!! lol

I get it, he didnt beat any ATG's other than a still highly capable but past his best Holmes and a Brilliant but Undersized Mike Spinks, his comp was average and his reign short. People put him in the ATG bracket based on the eye test, he just looked nearly unbeatable at his best and for me one of if not the best H2H HW fighter of all time. Some people are happy enough to rank based on things like that others insist on Records and accomplishments that are stone cold black and white facts to back their choices. Either way is cool with me i form my own opinions on things and try not to let others effect me.

He did Unify the belts, become the Youngest ever HW champ and then come out of a lengthy jail sentence to recapture a portion of the titles which is seriously impressive stuff though. ATG material? Debatable
This tends to be over looked, in my opinion it is a top achievement. After almost 4 years out he fought a total of 4 rounds against pretty poor opposition before fighting for the WBC title against Bruno. I mean when I look back they seriously underestimated Holyfield.
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#108
Old 12-17-2012, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TysonBomb View Post
yeah but they didn't consolidate them all like Mike did when each of the major belts were held by different champions.

Mike won 4 titles from 4 different champions with each champion possessing 1. Then went from a chain of succession, from Tyson to Douglas to Holyfield to Bowe ... Bowe dropped the WBC for not fighting Lewis and so Lewis picked that strap up

It gets rather long after that and the belts were all scattered again, after Tyson came back from prison. But even then when Lewis eventually won them all and became undisputed no one picked each of the belts up one by one. Lewis won two from the second Holyfield fight and already had one in his possession.

Even after Tyson came back he was still the closest to replicating his feat of picking each title up again one at a time.

Wlad may do it when Vitali retires
Okay yeah, it's a good feat if you beat several champions, but what does it really matter how many people you beat? It's all about holding all the belts, which those guys also did, which was my point. So I take it Wlad beat 3 separate champions then to win his 3 major belts? Yeah I think then he'll win the WBC one when Vitali retires. And you said that Tyson was the last great champion. So, what about Holyfield and Lewis?
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#109
Old 12-17-2012, 01:19 AM
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If Tyson was truly a great fighter he would've rebounded from the Douglass loss and rematched him and beat him. His 80's run wasn't impressive at all, he beat a lhw in Spinks, the Bruno fight was a bad stoppage, the rest of the guys were decent journeymen at best.

The Razor Ruddock fights really showed how mediocre he was. Razor was handing him his ass in the first fight when Tyson got another crap stoppage and the rematch was a life and death struggle. If Tyson hadn't been a rapist he would've been destroyed by Holyfield even earlier. Bowe and Lewis would've also done a job on him, not to mention the resurging Foreman.

I'm not gonna say he was a hypejob because he was obviously dynamic in his style, but his resume speaks for itself.
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#110
Old 12-17-2012, 05:06 AM
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If Tyson was truly a great fighter he would've rebounded from the Douglass loss and rematched him and beat him. His 80's run wasn't impressive at all, he beat a lhw in Spinks, the Bruno fight was a bad stoppage, the rest of the guys were decent journeymen at best.

The Razor Ruddock fights really showed how mediocre he was. Razor was handing him his ass in the first fight when Tyson got another crap stoppage and the rematch was a life and death struggle. If Tyson hadn't been a rapist he would've been destroyed by Holyfield even earlier. Bowe and Lewis would've also done a job on him, not to mention the resurging Foreman.

I'm not gonna say he was a hypejob because he was obviously dynamic in his style, but his resume speaks for itself.
If you go by THAT criteria. the only great fighter in the history of the heavyweight division is Lennox Lewis.
Lewis is the only one who avenged all his defeats.

OLYMPICS and Pros.

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