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#11
Old 12-01-2012, 05:58 PM
Miburo
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Originally Posted by THE ***1048;ATAS View Post
Robinson was obviously at his best at 147, not 160. Still an ATG at 160 but guys act like he's unbeatable at MW when in fact he wasn't. Hopkins would at the very least hold his ground and make it a tough fight.

Also to the poster above that says hopkins wouldn't win around and couldn't survive in robinsons era at 160, gotta disagree entirely. I don't see why Hopkins couldn't hang with the likes of LaMotta, Basilio, Gene Fullmer, Zale, Graziano, etc. etc. etc. A lot of these guys were like 5'6-5'7 Hopkins would have a really big size advantage against most of them not too mention Hopkins style is a problem for just about anyone, especially come forward brawlers who were a dime a dozen in those days.
Due to same-day weigh-ins being discontinued, virtually all weight classes now would be equivalent to the weight class directly above them in the previous era (ex. a modern MW would be a SMW back then). Robinson almost never even came in at the 160 limit, he was a not a big MW, and a great many of the MW champs of that era were former WWs who had moved up. Hopkins would have a big size advantage over literally all of those guys. Robinson would still give him the best fight, followed by Zale most likely, but I don't see the rest troubling him much at all.
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#12
Old 12-01-2012, 06:05 PM
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Heres why............he doesn't come to fight! He plays a wait and see and tries to inject offense into the fight as he sees defiencies in the opponent. Tell who todays throws as many punches from as many angles with a high rate of landing as Robinson? Who has Hopkins ever fought that even comes close to resembling the attack that Sugar can offer? Watch some film of him and tell me who comes close.................................no one!
Hopkins was a good fighter who was a minimalists!! He took no chances and capitalized on his opponents short comings well why he's looking for that in Robinson he's gonna be getting wacked around the ring and getting hurt! Bernard is a good fighter NOT a great fighter and thats not to say a good fighter can't beat a great fighter on a given night but these fantacy fights are supposed to be at "their best" and at his best Hopkins gets beat up against a Sugar Ray Robinson's "BEST"!
Study form , learn how fighters go about their business! You'll see very few defensive minded first fighters are considered great! To be great you need to defeat some great fighters if their not avalible at the time you fight then you have to demonstrate skills are superior to your top ten!!
Hopkins is a wait and see, very cleaver but not a great fighter just a smart who is lucky he's in the era he boxed in. He is NOT successfull in all eras.
The way he wins will not work against Robinson, Robinson would make him fight and Bernard isn't a great fighter. Ray
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#13
Old 12-01-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Due to same-day weigh-ins being discontinued, virtually all weight classes now would be equivalent to the weight class directly above them in the previous era (ex. a modern MW would be a SMW back then). Robinson almost never even came in at the 160 limit, he was a not a big MW, and a great many of the MW champs of that era were former WWs who had moved up. Hopkins would have a big size advantage over literally all of those guys. Robinson would still give him the best fight, followed by Zale most likely, but I don't see the rest troubling him much at all.
Yeah I'm totally aware of the weight but we have to ignore that kind of stuff for fantasy fights. Plus, I think hopkins is a kind of a guy that could have done same day weigh in just fine. It's not as if the old timers weren't cutting weight to make the weight class either.
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#14
Old 12-01-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by THE ***1048;ATAS View Post
Yeah I'm totally aware of the weight but we have to ignore that kind of stuff for fantasy fights. Plus, I think hopkins is a kind of a guy that could have done same day weigh in just fine. It's not as if the old timers weren't cutting weight to make the weight class either.
Regardless, Hopkins was also taller and had a longer reach than all the MW champions of that era. Many who were career MWs cut weight, but the ones who moved up from WW like Robinson did not really appear to. Consider that SRR came in at 157.5 lbs against Maxim for the LHW title.
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#15
Old 12-01-2012, 06:17 PM
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Regardless, Hopkins was also taller and had a longer reach than all the MW champions of that era. Many who were career MWs cut weight, but the ones who moved up from WW like Robinson did not really appear to. Consider that SRR came in at 157.5 lbs against Maxim for the LHW title.
oh yeah no doubt about that in regards to robinson. if I'm not mistaken his loss to Jake he only weighed 140 something pounds! hardly anyone mentions that!
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#16
Old 12-01-2012, 06:19 PM
ИATAS
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Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
Heres why............he doesn't come to fight! He plays a wait and see and tries to inject offense into the fight as he sees defiencies in the opponent. Tell who todays throws as many punches from as many angles with a high rate of landing as Robinson? Who has Hopkins ever fought that even comes close to resembling the attack that Sugar can offer? Watch some film of him and tell me who comes close.................................no one!
Hopkins was a good fighter who was a minimalists!! He took no chances and capitalized on his opponents short comings well why he's looking for that in Robinson he's gonna be getting wacked around the ring and getting hurt! Bernard is a good fighter NOT a great fighter and thats not to say a good fighter can't beat a great fighter on a given night but these fantacy fights are supposed to be at "their best" and at his best Hopkins gets beat up against a Sugar Ray Robinson's "BEST"!
Study form , learn how fighters go about their business! You'll see very few defensive minded first fighters are considered great! To be great you need to defeat some great fighters if their not avalible at the time you fight then you have to demonstrate skills are superior to your top ten!!
Hopkins is a wait and see, very cleaver but not a great fighter just a smart who is lucky he's in the era he boxed in. He is NOT successfull in all eras.
The way he wins will not work against Robinson, Robinson would make him fight and Bernard isn't a great fighter. Ray
what?! Did you watch a prime middleweight hopkins? He was a very good offensive fighter that came to fight. He had more of a "seek & destroy" type style of fighting. As he got older he became much more defensive and his output slowed down, but again a young hopkins was very much offensive. He came to fight man, no question about it.
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#17
Old 12-01-2012, 06:22 PM
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What great fighters did he beat then? What great fighters did he stop? Ray.
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#18
Old 12-01-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
Heres why............he doesn't come to fight! He plays a wait and see and tries to inject offense into the fight as he sees defiencies in the opponent. Tell who todays throws as many punches from as many angles with a high rate of landing as Robinson? Who has Hopkins ever fought that even comes close to resembling the attack that Sugar can offer? Watch some film of him and tell me who comes close.................................no one!
Hopkins was a good fighter who was a minimalists!! He took no chances and capitalized on his opponents short comings well why he's looking for that in Robinson he's gonna be getting wacked around the ring and getting hurt! Bernard is a good fighter NOT a great fighter and thats not to say a good fighter can't beat a great fighter on a given night but these fantacy fights are supposed to be at "their best" and at his best Hopkins gets beat up against a Sugar Ray Robinson's "BEST"!
Study form , learn how fighters go about their business! You'll see very few defensive minded first fighters are considered great! To be great you need to defeat some great fighters if their not avalible at the time you fight then you have to demonstrate skills are superior to your top ten!!
Hopkins is a wait and see, very cleaver but not a great fighter just a smart who is lucky he's in the era he boxed in. He is NOT successfull in all eras.
The way he wins will not work against Robinson, Robinson would make him fight and Bernard isn't a great fighter. Ray
Bernard Hopkins "isn't a great fighter" and "doesn't come to fight?" Come on. That's laughable.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:28 PM
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What great fighters did he beat then? What great fighters did he stop? Ray.
He beat the living hell out of Felix Trinidad, for one. Antonio Tarver. Oscar de la Hoya (not 100% legit but still). Roy Jones... just yanking your chain on that one. He embarrassed Kelly Pavlik, which was no joke. And he took the middleweight title and put it in a sleeper hold for 7 years.
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#20
Old 12-01-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
What great fighters did he beat then? What great fighters did he stop? Ray.
You know exactly the fighters Hopkins fought and beat you don't need me to tell you you can boxrec his resume if you don't know and see things like he's the only man to have stopped an undefeated Glen Johnson etc.

Again, did you watch a prime hopkins or not? You didn't answer me. Because if you did I'm sure you would know he was more of a seek & destroy type fighter. He was a lot more offensive, especially compared to a post 40 year old hopkins who has slowed down a great deal for obvious reasons.

Just watch the Johnson fight for example and look at his output.
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