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#1
Old 11-29-2012, 07:34 PM
JAB5239
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Default Top 12 h2h heavyweights in history

You can tear my list down, but Im hoping other will post their own list and reasons. Remember, keep the discussion civil.

The top 12 heavyweight h2h all time

1. Muhammad Ali - Showed his ability to overcome adversity many times and his skills would carry him over nearly every fighter ever.

2. Lennox Lewis - I will inevitably hear about his chin, but no fighter had his skills, size, power and agression when he was at his very best.

3. Larry Holmes - One of the gutsiest and most determined fighters with a skillset and chin to match.

4. Joe Louis - The greatest heavyweight if all time in my opinion. That doesn't mean his style wouldn't allow him to lose at times. It wouldn't be often, but it keeps him from being the best h2h in my opinion.

5. George Foreman - The man could be beat, but lets face it he could destroy any fighter on any given night.

6. Joe Frazier - I have a feeling Frazier being so high will bring a lot of controversy. But with his skill, stamina and tenacity it think few beat him at their respective bests.

7. Sonny Liston - At his best Liston was a tyrant capeable of beating nearly any man in history....and he was mean. A skilled, hard punching fighter who wasn't just in the ring for sport...he wanted to hurt you.

8. Wladimir Klitschko - Any man who can stay focused after 7 years and keep reigning on top has to be great and a threat to most fighters in history. He still doesn't crack my all time top 10 list, but with his skills, size and logevity he deserves a spot on this one.

9. Evander Holyfield - He wan't called the warrior for nothing. Had the chin, skills and stamina to fight with the best in history.

10. Vitaly Klitschko - As much as I hate to give anything to a guy I consider hugely overrated, Vittles is a tough guy and would be at any time in history. His size and awkwardness would provide problems for mant fighters.

11. Mike Tyson - No fighter in history was better in the first 4 rounds. If you were lucky to you still weren't out of danger, but you gave yourself a chance.

12. Jack Johnson - Any man who could fight under the duress Johnson was under would persevere and be great in any era. Oh, and the guy could fight.

Last edited by JAB5239; 11-29-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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#2
Old 11-29-2012, 07:41 PM
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Why 12 and not 10?

Pretty much agree, with Ali #1, Holmes #2, Foreman #3, Tyson #4, Louis #5 and so on.
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#3
Old 11-29-2012, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight_professor View Post
Why 12 and not 10?

Pretty much agree, with Ali #1, Holmes #2, Foreman #3, Tyson #4, Louis #5 and so on.
Lol, I was going to do 20, but it started getting more difficult than I anticipated. You guys are welcome to do 10 if you'd like.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:05 PM
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1. jack johnson: the greatest defensive fighter who was very good on the inside, excellent fundmentals, great chin, very high boxing IQ, very fast hands, excellent power, mentally strong, when focused almost impossible to defeat

2. muhammed ali: excellent defensive fighter, very high boxing IQ, excellent chin, blistering speed, he has mastered the art of fighting of the back foot, only way to win against him is to get a decision, mentally impossible to defeat.

3. joe louis: greatest fighter coming forward ever, back breaking power, very good chin, standing toe to toe with him near impossible, if your not an excellent defensive fighter your not going to win against him.

4.sonny liston: very good fighter coming forward, excellent jab, tremendous power, only way to defeat sonny liston is to be an excellent defensive fighter with lateral movement.

5. george foreman: very good coming forward, excellent at cutting of ring, tremendous power, near impossible to KO for someone who never blocked, no one who stands toe to toe with foreman can win.

cant think of anymore right now lol
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:16 PM
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No offense but Lennox's skill set was better than Louis, Ali, Holmes, Johnson, Evander, Tuney, Charles, Walcott sorry but Lennox was a very good oversized boxer but he didn't have the skill set that these other men had. He could be awkward at times as most oversized heavies can be. I like him alot and again he can box in any era and win but his skill set is lower than the other mentioned men and theres a few others I'm sure!
I have no problem with his chin, he made mistakes when he was defeated his chin had little to do with the outcome. Every Heavy other than Rocky lost and even Rock hit the canvas for a second or two! Ray.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
You can tear my list down, but Im hoping other will post their own list and reasons. Remember, keep the discussion civil.

The top 12 heavyweight h2h all time

1. Muhammad Ali - Showed his ability to overcome adversity many times and his skills would carry him over nearly every fighter ever.

2. Lennox Lewis - I will inevitably hear about his chin, but no fighter had his skills, size, power and agression when he was at his very best.

3. Larry Holmes - One of the gutsiest and most determined fighters with a skillset and chin to match.

4. Joe Louis - The greatest heavyweight if all time in my opinion. That doesn't mean his style wouldn't allow him to lose at times. It wouldn't be often, but it keeps him from being the best h2h in my opinion.

5. George Foreman - The man could be beat, but lets face it he could destroy any fighter on any given night.

6. Joe Frazier - I have a feeling Frazier being so high will bring a lot of controversy. But with his skill, stamina and tenacity it think few beat him at their respective bests.

7. Sonny Liston - At his best Liston was a tyrant capeable of beating nearly any man in history....and he was mean. A skilled, hard punching fighter who wasn't just in the ring for sport...he wanted to hurt you.

8. Wladimir Klitschko - Any man who can stay focused after 7 years and keep reigning on top has to be great and a threat to most fighters in history. He still doesn't crack my all time top 10 list, but with his skills, size and logevity he deserves a spot on this one.

9. Evander Holyfield - He wan't called the warrior for nothing. Had the chin, skills and stamina to fight with the best in history.

10. Vitaly Klitschko - As much as I hate to give anything to a guy I consider hugely overrated, Vittles is a tough guy and would be at any time in history. His size and awkwardness would provide problems for mant fighters.

11. Mike Tyson - No fighter in history was better in the first 4 rounds. If you were lucky to you still weren't out of danger, but you gave yourself a chance.

12. Jack Johnson - Any man who could fight under the duress Johnson was under would persevere and be great in any era. Oh, and the guy could fight.
i love the concept

i like the list. you're basically asking "who has the most advantages at HW?"

ali had some real advantages.
length, speed, skills, AND a great chin?
damn.


lewis chin gets underrated as well. i've posted this list once before, but these are the punchers he faced and beat, ranging from good punchers to bonafide bangers:

klitschko
rahman
tyson
tua
grant
holyfield
briggs
mercer
morrison
tucker
ruddock


the two stoppage losses are obviously to blame for the rating of his chin. it's not the best, but it's not a sh#t chin the way might some make it out to be. any HW that gets hit on the chin by a puncher is going to be effected. that's the idea.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:45 PM
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frazier might be a bit high, given his physical limitations, but he's got one of the best wins of all time at the weight in his UD over muhammad ali in '71. additionally he's got the weight of two stoppage losses to foreman weighing on his rating. he's as tough as they come, though, and he was durable over the course of a fight and usually in dog shape.

wladimir's chin is pretty bad. he's never taken a big punch that makes me say "damn, this guy can take a shot." virtually all other great HW have shown that characteristic.
his style, size, and his jab would make it a rough go, though. he's strong enough to tie almost anybody up if they get close, but there are moments when he's vulnerable, and you've got to figure that a great HW is going to put one on his chin.


vitali lost his two biggest fights, and you've got to take into consideration that he's never shown to have an incredibly durable body. he couldn't make it through a full training camp for almost four years when his body should have been at it's peak. for all of his gangliness, though, vitali did have some skills, some steam on his right hand in his prime, and a great chin. he's got a bonafide beard, and you've got to punch up to get there, and get by his long arms and funky defense.



johnson might have trouble as well, but at 12 you've got a lot of guys ahead of him, so the ranking is fair. johnson had a style based on being a bigger guy. he'd stay at a distance an pick off punches. when he got close he'd use his strength and hold guys easily. at his best he was 185 lbs. i was 185 lbs when i was 17 years old... men have gotten a hell of a lot bigger in 100 + years. 6'1". 74" reach. that's the size of bernard hopkins, with about 10 - 20 extra natural lbs.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
You can tear my list down, but Im hoping other will post their own list and reasons. Remember, keep the discussion civil.

The top 12 heavyweight h2h all time

1. Muhammad Ali - Showed his ability to overcome adversity many times and his skills would carry him over nearly every fighter ever.

2. Lennox Lewis - I will inevitably hear about his chin, but no fighter had his skills, size, power and agression when he was at his very best.

3. Larry Holmes - One of the gutsiest and most determined fighters with a skillset and chin to match.

4. Joe Louis - The greatest heavyweight if all time in my opinion. That doesn't mean his style wouldn't allow him to lose at times. It wouldn't be often, but it keeps him from being the best h2h in my opinion.

5. George Foreman - The man could be beat, but lets face it he could destroy any fighter on any given night.

6. Joe Frazier - I have a feeling Frazier being so high will bring a lot of controversy. But with his skill, stamina and tenacity it think few beat him at their respective bests.

7. Sonny Liston - At his best Liston was a tyrant capeable of beating nearly any man in history....and he was mean. A skilled, hard punching fighter who wasn't just in the ring for sport...he wanted to hurt you.

8. Wladimir Klitschko - Any man who can stay focused after 7 years and keep reigning on top has to be great and a threat to most fighters in history. He still doesn't crack my all time top 10 list, but with his skills, size and logevity he deserves a spot on this one.

9. Evander Holyfield - He wan't called the warrior for nothing. Had the chin, skills and stamina to fight with the best in history.

10. Vitaly Klitschko - As much as I hate to give anything to a guy I consider hugely overrated, Vittles is a tough guy and would be at any time in history. His size and awkwardness would provide problems for mant fighters.

11. Mike Tyson - No fighter in history was better in the first 4 rounds. If you were lucky to you still weren't out of danger, but you gave yourself a chance.

12. Jack Johnson - Any man who could fight under the duress Johnson was under would persevere and be great in any era. Oh, and the guy could fight.

Great list Jab

However; I might be opening up a can of worms here, but I'd have Riddick Bowe somewhere in this list. For all his lack of dedication, the guy who met Holyfield in the first two matches beats both Klitschkos, possibly Lewis, obviously Holyfield and maybe others such as Frazier too.

I think Bowe gets a tough time on these forums. 'No dedication', 'only great for one fight', 'too short prime'.....these are fair points. People forget the second Holyfield fight which was razor close (most commentaries have Bowe winning and the cards were a draw and only single points from memory). People excuse Holyfield the third fight for his 'cold', but who knows for certain. Bowe did have other good nights too.....head to head I think he has a good shot at beating several guys on this list and making it a very hard night for the others.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:23 AM
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H2H Bowe is a top 10 guy.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:10 PM
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I thought Holyfield had Hepatitis C in the third Bowe fight?
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