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#11
Old 11-24-2012, 04:26 AM
studentofthegam
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Originally Posted by Aztec Wanker View Post
No.

This guy conned everyone into thinking he's great. Fighting Pacquiao every couple of years with some EZ, tailor-made fights in between does not equal greatness.

Excluding Pac...MAB, Casamayor, Kats, and Diaz are his best official wins. That is not an ATG resume IMO.

Barrera's last hurrah was in '06 when he was going life and death with Rocky Juarez. He didn't do anything relevant after that.

Casamayor previously had received a gift with a bow on top in the Santa Cruz fight. He looked terrible and clearly lost. He also was coming off a yearlong layoff and fighting Corrales 3x, Castillo, Freitas, prime Nate Campbell. His body was DONE.

Diaz, good win, probably JMM's best official win. Diaz was a good fighter but was basically a full time LAW student when they fought. Still a good win.

It pains me to say it but Kats is just a journeyman. He's EZ to hit and comes right at you, tailor-made for JMM. It was a stay busy fight for Pacquiao III.

JMM also has wins over Juarez, Gainer, Peden, and Salido (NOW you can say it's a good win). Mediocre.

This is a good resume, maybe even a HOF, but ATG, LEGEND? GTFO. This con artist owes his entire career and life to one man, Manny Pacquiao. Without him, his legacy is ****. He is not greater than Barrera, Morales, or even Castillo. Not a chance. Those guys fought the best at their best. This guy took EZ fights and followed Pac around like a psycho ex-gf.
First of all who could be an ATG if you take 5 or six fighters off their resume. Thats nuts. Secondly many fighters avoided him. Third, If Pacquiao is where the money is then why not. He never waited long periods without fighting to catch Pac. Friend........never mind.
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#12
Old 11-24-2012, 04:47 AM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by studentofthegam View Post
Let me start by saying that I think Marquez is an amazing boxer. ATG? I guess it depends on who you ask. No one appears to have a real formula for choosing.
From what I've heard there are a few categories that count.

ATG's on resume check
excellent skills check
winning record check
multiple divisions check
takes on all check

If there are any categories I missed that disqualify him from the conversation please enlighten me. By these standards and the controversial fights with Pacquiao I find it hard to keep him out.
No. Marquez 3 close fights against Pacquiao plus his close fight against shot Barrera and Chris John didn't help either. He should totally dominated them all maybe he is right now.
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#13
Old 11-24-2012, 05:06 AM
studentofthegam
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No. Marquez 3 close fights against Pacquiao plus his close fight against shot Barrera and Chris John didn't help either. He should totally dominated them all maybe he is right now.
OK. Let me get this straight. Pacquiao is no challenge. John and Barrera were geezers when he fought them. If all that is true then there is no way he could be considered. Thank for the opinion.
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#14
Old 11-24-2012, 07:06 AM
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Yes. Just barely, because outside of Pacquiao the resume isn't there, but he is an ATG.
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#15
Old 11-24-2012, 07:20 AM
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He's already an ATG in my book.
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#16
Old 11-24-2012, 08:15 AM
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If he beats Manny convincingly then his place as an ATG is cemented. Even though I reckon he's done enough to be considered among the greats already, although that's subjective.
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#17
Old 11-24-2012, 08:18 AM
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IMO....Yes!
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#18
Old 11-24-2012, 08:25 AM
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No and I don't see how a case can be made.
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#19
Old 11-24-2012, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by studentofthegam View Post
First of all who could be an ATG if you take 5 or six fighters off their resume. Thats nuts. Secondly many fighters avoided him. Third, If Pacquiao is where the money is then why not. He never waited long periods without fighting to catch Pac. Friend........never mind.
In the bold I don't know how true that is but I can tell you one thing, that has zero to do with his place on the all time list.
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#20
Old 11-24-2012, 08:30 AM
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I think he is.

Before the third Pacquaio fight I didn't think he was.

But that win solidified it for me.
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