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Old 11-19-2012, 10:46 PM #41
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Ward is MUCH further along in is career and accomplished s a fighter at the moment. Maybe we can compare 28 yr old Bronerto a 28 yr old Ward.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:47 PM #42
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Originally Posted by mathed View Post
It doesn't matter, it's ultimately your opinion in contrast to mine - no matter how you spin it.

I look at the numbers and Bradley faced and beat the better comp between the two, unified titles, numerous title defenses, never missed weight. To draw a forecast into the near or distant future is nothing more than speculation - the only things that hold any weight in reality are accomplishments, not hopes and dreams.
???

Did I not in the very first line agree that Broner is less accomplished?

So wasn't your above rant unnecessary?

I think I pretty much laid out my feelings, but I think you just needed the last word.

Have it, son.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:54 PM #43
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Originally Posted by HeroBando View Post
I agree on Broner, but I wouldn't be bringing up weight drain games after what he pulled with Escobedo.
Not making weight and intentionally stipulating that your opponent must make a weight that suits YOUR AGENDA are two very different things.

Not making weight is a part of the game. Always has been. Always will be.

Pretending that you cannot make a weight that you have been making for years so that you can justify demanding that your opponent be further weakened is a cowardly move.

Apples and oranges, my man.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:04 PM #44
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Originally Posted by Brother Jay View Post
Not making weight and intentionally stipulating that your opponent must make a weight that suits YOUR AGENDA are two very different things.

Not making weight is a part of the game. Always has been. Always will be.

Pretending that you cannot make a weight that you have been making for years so that you can justify demanding that your opponent be further weakened is a cowardly move.

Apples and oranges, my man.
Sure but what Broner did was worse by any measure. You're ambushing the opponent who can't even say no, it's his only chance at 6 figures. And then the next day thing he pulled, that's what makes it indefensible. Check out those pics of Rios at Abril and Murray weighin for a guy who tried making weight.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:04 PM #45
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Did I really seem upset? Is that what you see? LOL ...

I did dispute that statement based on the fact that aside from Pacquiao, Bradley hasn't really done anything P4P worthy. Personally, I don't think Broner has either but its a loaded statement because honestly neither man has done enough to be regarded P4P at this point.

And my mind is made up: I am ranking Broner's win over all of Bradley's wins because none of them were #1. NONE.

Rank is how one determines the value of a win. It isn't determined by "what people were saying" or "what you thought the other guy could do". The only other element at play would be quality of opponent at the time of the fight. This is especially important because certain boxers wait until their potential opponents lose to someone else, and then swoop in to capitalize on the fallen foe's name recognition. Those kinds of situations must be factored in.
demarco was ranked #1 by default because he was in a terrible division. demarco's best win was over a guy ranked #9.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:08 PM #46
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Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
Ward is MUCH further along in is career and accomplished s a fighter at the moment. Maybe we can compare 28 yr old Bronerto a 28 yr old Ward.
They have nearly the same amount of fights though.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:09 PM #47
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They have nearly the same amount of fights though.
Ward's been a pro much longer
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:13 PM #48
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demarco was ranked #1 by default because he was in a terrible division. demarco's best win was over a guy ranked #9.
So Demarco was NOT recognized as the #1 LW?

I'm not hailing Broner's win over Demarco as some P4P performance.

I am saying that Broner could have played it safe and fought lesser ranked fighters to pad his record like some other fighters have shamelessly done.

Instead, Broner fought the best in class.

When was the last time that Bradley did that? I seem to remember Bradley dodging Khan for quite some time. Khan was the man at 140 to beat. Bradley wanted nothing to do with that fight.

When was the last time Pacquiao fought the best in class .. meaning a #1 in a weight class? We'd have to go back to 2008!!

So while Broner is less accomplished than both fighters, he's starting off right by seeking the best .. which is the #1, 2 and 3 in any division.

Pacquiao had 40 fights before he even fought someone on the world stage you'd even recognize. That's a hell of a lot of padding.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:16 PM #49
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Trolls with red bar are literally not worth having a conversation with. They are so deep in their trolling it's sad.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:16 PM #50
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Originally Posted by Brother Jay View Post
Neither Froch or Kessler are elite fighters.

You can be at the top of your division and not be an elite fighter.

Skills and ability make you elite, not what you have accomplished.

Bute had amassed a very impressive record in some eyes ... and he even had so fooled into believing that he was elite .. that is until he stepped up competition.

Froch is still virtually young in his career. Broner is almost in the same position that Froch was when he entered the Super Six. Broner IMO is 10 times the technician that Froch or Kessler could ever be.

That isn't to say that Froch and Kessler don't have their strengths as well.

But elite? No sir. They are not.

Was Gatti or Mickey Ward elite? No sir.

They gave us one of the most memorable trilogies in boxing history. They were two guys willing to lay it all out on the line.

But elite? Hell no.

Maybe you should research the term elite and discover why so few fit the criteria. Its a pretty exclusive club to be in.
You're not comparing Froch's resume to Gatti and Ward's are you? I think a case can be made for Froch being in the top 10 P4P and some people have him in there, I think he's at 12 or 13 personally. I think Froch is an elite fighter. You don't have to have insane speed and defense to be elite. Froch has underrated boxing abilitiy and pretty good power. He beats anyone at 168, except Ward of course. Of course, this is a matter of opinion.
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