Andre Ward or Adrien Broner?

[#thirsty]

TMT IS taking over!!! lol

[Brother Jay]

Originally Posted by HeroBando

Dude Bradley was #1 in a very deep 140. He beat like 4 top 10 contenders, easily. Surely you don't think all divisions are of same strength?

Really?

Who did Bradley fight that makes him a P4P fighter at 140?

I'm not saying he wasn't at the top of 140. I am saying he didn't face anyone that would would have put him on any P4P list.

He could have fought Khan, but as we saw Khan faded. Twice.

To be honest, Bradley's best win comes over Devon Alexander.

That ain't a P4P win.

[HeroBando]

Originally Posted by Brother Jay

Really?

Who did Bradley fight that makes him a P4P fighter at 140?

I'm not saying he wasn't at the top of 140. I am saying he didn't face anyone that would would have put him on any P4P list.

He could have fought Khan, but as we saw Khan faded. Twice.

To be honest, Bradley's best win comes over Devon Alexander.

That ain't a P4P win.

Witter, Holt, Alexander, Peterson all top 10, all former/future beltholders. It's like Ward, none of his S6 wins was p4p, but it adds up. He's the only guy to come unscathed at 140, look how Ortiz failed at every step

[Brother Jay]

Originally Posted by mathed

Everybody Bradley fights is either undefeated or is a number 1 ranked contender (with the exception of Casa of course). Tim moved up and handed Abregu his only loss.....people were quick to say Abregu was a bum to begin with and said Tim looked like crap. Dulorme was supposed to turn him into hamburger meat and he got KTFO like nearly everyone else that he has faced.

Tim is turning down garbage fights that his promoter wants him to participate in because he wants tougher, more elite competition. Broner's best win is DeMarco I mean what has Broner done to make people put him on a pedestal? He is popular because of the Mayweather comparisons and that's it. Just listen to these commentators and promoters: "He could be the next Mayweather"....I don't see it but it is what it is.

Tim's resume is a lot better than Broner's is and the guys that he has beaten go on to dominate other world level talent so you know that them losing to Tim isn't a fluke, they just got shut down by a superior boxer.

Maybe you are responding to several comments in your above post but I will stick to what I said:

1 - Broner is NOT more accomplished than Bradley. He's simply more talented and skilled.

2 - Bradley's best win came over Alexander, not Abregu.

3 - I have not put Broner on any pedestals. I simply have acknowledged more than a year ago that both Broner and Gary Russell Jr are the future of the sport. Its only now that some others seem to agree with me at this point.

4 - Which #1 did Bradley beat? I know that Broner just beat Demarco who was the #1LW in the world. My point is that you are correct when stating that Broner has more to do before being as accomplished as Bradley due to experience, but he's taking on the best at a younger age and looking much better doing it.

Some will bring up the Deleon fight, and one could counter by mentioning that Bradley looked much worse winning against Holt.

So there's that.

[Dr Rumack]

Originally Posted by Brother Jay

Maybe you are responding to several comments in your above post but I will stick to what I said:

1 - Broner is NOT more accomplished than Bradley. He's simply more talented and skilled.


3 - I have not put Broner on any pedestals. I simply have acknowledged more than a year ago that both Broner and Gary Russell Jr are the future of the sport. Its only now that some others seem to agree with me at this point.

The claim that got you all upset was:

"Bradley is better p4p than Broner is .......you best believe that."

Are you disputing that or not? You say that Bradley is more accomplished, but Broner had better skills, but you are not putting Broner on a pedestal.

Make your mind up, are you ranking his victory over Demarco higher than Bradley's victories over Peterson, Alexander, Abregu, and Pacquiao or not.

[IronDanHamza]

Originally Posted by mathed

Everybody Bradley fights is either undefeated or is a number 1 ranked contender (with the exception of Casa of course). Tim moved up and handed Abregu his only loss.....people were quick to say Abregu was a bum to begin with and said Tim looked like crap. Dulorme was supposed to turn him into hamburger meat and he got KTFO like nearly everyone else that he has faced.

Tim is turning down garbage fights that his promoter wants him to participate in because he wants tougher, more elite competition. Broner's best win is DeMarco I mean what has Broner done to make people put him on a pedestal? He is popular because of the Mayweather comparisons and that's it. Just listen to these commentators and promoters: "He could be the next Mayweather"....I don't see it but it is what it is.

Tim's resume is a lot better than Broner's is and the guys that he has beaten go on to dominate other world level talent so you know that them losing to Tim isn't a fluke, they just got shut down by a superior boxer.

"Undefeated!!!"

[Brother Jay]

Originally Posted by HeroBando

Witter, Holt, Alexander, Peterson all top 10, all former/future beltholders. It's like Ward, none of his S6 wins was p4p, but it adds up. He's the only guy to come unscathed at 140, look how Ortiz failed at every step

Witter - was always a questionable commodity.

Holt - made Bradley look like luke warm **** in that fight.

Alexander - only rose to fame because of one win over Urango and couldn't live up to the hype.

Peterson - claim to fame was a draw with Ortiz.

Come on. I like Bradley, but don't bolster him because he owns an official win over Pacquiao. I might have even looked the other way had Bradley fought Khan before Peterson did. But alas, he flat out refused.

Bradley's good, but before Pacquiao no one was singing that man's praises. His only claim to fame was that he was undefeated having fought no one of consequence. Not that Demarco is anyone of consequence, but Broner fought the #1 in his first outing at 135.

Says more about Broner as an up and comer than all of the guys you mentioned from Bradley's home division.

[mathed]

Originally Posted by Brother Jay

Maybe you are responding to several comments in your above post but I will stick to what I said:

1 - Broner is NOT more accomplished than Bradley. He's simply more talented and skilled.

2 - Bradley's best win came over Alexander, not Abregu.

3 - I have not put Broner on any pedestals. I simply have acknowledged more than a year ago that both Broner and Gary Russell Jr are the future of the sport. Its only now that some others seem to agree with me at this point.

4 - Which #1 did Bradley beat? I know that Broner just beat Demarco who was the #1LW in the world. My point is that you are correct when stating that Broner has more to do before being as accomplished as Bradley due to experience, but he's taking on the best at a younger age and looking much better doing it.

Some will bring up the Deleon fight, and one could counter by mentioning that Bradley looked much worse winning against Holt.

So there's that.

It doesn't matter, it's ultimately your opinion in contrast to mine - no matter how you spin it.

I look at the numbers and Bradley faced and beat the better comp between the two, unified titles, numerous title defenses, never missed weight. To draw a forecast into the near or distant future is nothing more than speculation - the only things that hold any weight in reality are accomplishments, not hopes and dreams.

[Brother Jay]

Originally Posted by Dr Rumack

The claim that got you all upset was:

"Bradley is better p4p than Broner is .......you best believe that."

Are you disputing that or not? You say that Bradley is more accomplished, but Broner had better skills, but you are not putting Broner on a pedestal.

Make your mind up, are you ranking his victory over Demarco higher than Bradley's victories over Peterson, Alexander, Abregu, and Pacquiao or not.

Did I really seem upset? Is that what you see? LOL ...

I did dispute that statement based on the fact that aside from Pacquiao, Bradley hasn't really done anything P4P worthy. Personally, I don't think Broner has either but its a loaded statement because honestly neither man has done enough to be regarded P4P at this point.

And my mind is made up: I am ranking Broner's win over all of Bradley's wins because none of them were #1. NONE.

Rank is how one determines the value of a win. It isn't determined by "what people were saying" or "what you thought the other guy could do". The only other element at play would be quality of opponent at the time of the fight. This is especially important because certain boxers wait until their potential opponents lose to someone else, and then swoop in to capitalize on the fallen foe's name recognition. Those kinds of situations must be factored in.

[HeroBando]

Originally Posted by Brother Jay

Some will bring up the Deleon fight, and one could counter by mentioning that Bradley looked much worse winning against Holt.

So there's that.

This is not a good comparison. Bradley Holt was a 50/50 fight, green champ vs top contender. Broner DLH was a showcase. Bradley got dropped twice, once very hard, but unlike Broner he won crystal clear. Which was exhibit A in "What makes Bradley so tough to beat?"