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#31
Old 11-18-2012, 03:46 PM
Spray_resistant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCCFC View Post
and your point is?

This thread is about Carl Froch
Yeah sure this has absolutely nothing to do with Joe C at all and his poor resume he retired with compared to Froch's excellent one even as an active fighter still.
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#32
Old 11-18-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCCFC View Post
He lost to Kessler too.

Is Glen Johnson a 'great win' ? I want to hear your opinion.. thanks.
Let's be honest, the loss to Kessler was very very close. I had the fight a draw, I think a draw would have been fine with many people.

The win over Glen Johnson was a good win, but perhaps not a great one in itself. Glen Johnson was coming off of a KO win against Green. However, wins over Taylor, Dirrel, Abraham, Johnson, Pascal, Bute are great when they are strung together. I'm fairly sure that every single one of these fighters were ranked in the top 10 when he fought them. Many of them had titles, or were former champions. Who has Froch NOT fought? Froch only legitimately fell short in one fight, against Ward. The guy doesn't duck anyone, consistently finds a way to win, and makes great fights. He's flawed, sure. The only way Froch's resume would be better is if he had won the fights with Ward and Kessler.

Name a fighter with a great resume. ANY fighter. Mayweather? Oh what is Mayweather's best win? De La Hoya? Cotto? Cotto was washed up, he got KO'd by Pacquiao and plastered by Marg. De La Hoya was on the decline. Who else... Oh yea, Mayweather actually had the audacity to fight BALDOMIR! Can you believe that? Is Baldomir a great win?

The argument I've given above is the exact same kind of logic that you have used here in this thread. We all know Mayweather is a great fighter. While Froch isn't as great as Mayweather, all fighters resumes are subject to the same kind of idiotic analysis that you are listing. If someone is consistently going out and winning/KOing top 10 contenders, champions, and former champions - then you are simply stupid for criticizing them. Pick someone who is worth critizing, like Alexander Povetkin. Now there is a true paper champ.
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#33
Old 11-18-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenso View Post
Let's be honest, the loss to Kessler was very very close. I had the fight a draw, I think a draw would have been fine with many people.

The win over Glen Johnson was a good win, but perhaps not a great one in itself. Glen Johnson was coming off of a KO win against Green. However, wins over Taylor, Dirrel, Abraham, Johnson, Pascal, Bute are great when they are strung together. I'm fairly sure that every single one of these fighters were ranked in the top 10 when he fought them. Many of them had titles, or were former champions. Who has Froch NOT fought? Froch only legitimately fell short in one fight, against Ward. The guy doesn't duck anyone, consistently finds a way to win, and makes great fights. He's flawed, sure. The only way Froch's resume would be better is if he had won the fights with Ward and Kessler.

Name a fighter with a great resume. ANY fighter. Mayweather? Oh what is Mayweather's best win? De La Hoya? Cotto? Cotto was washed up, he got KO'd by Pacquiao and plastered by Marg. De La Hoya was on the decline. Who else... Oh yea, Mayweather actually had the audacity to fight BALDOMIR! Can you believe that? Is Baldomir a great win?

The argument I've given above is the exact same kind of logic that you have used here in this thread. We all know Mayweather is a great fighter. While Froch isn't as great as Mayweather, all fighters resumes are subject to the same kind of idiotic analysis that you are listing. If someone is consistently going out and winning/KOing top 10 contenders, champions, and former champions - then you are simply stupid for criticizing them. Pick someone who is worth critizing, like Alexander Povetkin. Now there is a true paper champ.
Great resume?

Sugar Ray Leonard

Good resume?

Carl Froch

And I'm not criticizing Froch all that much, just saying his wins have been elevated above the norm because they were under the Super 6 umbrella.
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#34
Old 11-18-2012, 04:22 PM
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Theres no shame in losing a close fight to Kessler in his back yard
And although it wasn't close there's no shame in the way froch lost to ward
Froch stock will rise with Andre Ward. If ward progresses the way he is by the time he retires froch could be his most difficult fight as I just can't see anyone coming close to him for years to come that's just how good I think he could be.
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#35
Old 11-18-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCCFC View Post
Great resume?

Sugar Ray Leonard

Good resume?

Carl Froch

And I'm not criticizing Froch all that much, just saying his wins have been elevated above the norm because they were under the Super 6 umbrella.
My point is that the same criticism you are throwing at Froch can be thrown at even some of the greatest fighters of all time. Your analysis is not only unfair, but it is plain out wrong. Froch isn't being heralded as an ATG, and not even a future HOFer yet. However, he is recognized as a good, solid fighter and champion. To imply that he hasn't done all the he can do to earn that is simply wrong. The super 6 was a great tool to build anyones resume. It prevented the politics of boxing from interfering with the best in the division fighting each other. Froch's resume benefited as a result, as it should have.

Let's look at Froch's most recent string of fights:
Pascal
Taylor
Dirrel
Kessler
Abraham
Johnson
Ward
Bute
Mack

Name me ONE fighter who has taken 9 fights in a row without even ONE being a "gimme" fight. None of these fighters may be ATGs, but that is one hell of a run right there. The super 6 may have facilitated this string of tough matches, but it did not in any way change the fact that he has been consistently taking on some of the toughest matches available. What is his next move? Looks like he's aiming for rematches with Kessler and Ward. We all know Froch isn't the champ right now, but he is one of the few fighters in the sport that we should not be criticizing.

Your argument is that Froch's resume wouldn't look as good without the super 6. You may be right, but that doesn't change who he has fought, and that is in no way a negative thing at all. He committed to fighting the best available, and he has been doing pretty dang good.
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#36
Old 11-18-2012, 04:56 PM
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At the end of the day, Froch went away from home to fight the biggest threat in the division in his prime.

Some people prefer to wait until those biggest threats get old before going to fight them.
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#37
Old 11-18-2012, 05:01 PM
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A good few of Froch's big wins came on the road - so did two of his losses.

It's a great resume but the key point here is Froch isn't finished, he's going to fight for another 2 years (his words).
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#38
Old 11-18-2012, 05:16 PM
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The Super Six was made when guys were undefeated and at their peak.

I thought Froch would lose to Abraham, but he proved me wrong.

Abraham was a solid win. Before he fouled Dirrel, Abraham was coming on late and possibly was on route to a TKO/KO victory. Abraham went up in weight and lost to the best 168 lb'ers. Fcuking Kenny Norton lost to the best HW's in his day, but that doesn't mean he's not a HOF'er. Schit happens.

It's plain wrong to take away from his Abraham victory. I thought Froch lost to Dirrel, but what's done is done, it was a close fight.

The only victory I never gave Froch credit for was his win over Johnson. I felt that was kind of weak because Johnson wasn't the same fighter that beat RJJ, but oh well.

Overall, The S.S enhanced Froch's legacy and definitely didn't take anything away from him. At the time, he fought and beat some of the best guys available. Nothing else he can do.

Unless you're saying instead of fighting in the SS, he should've been fighting guys like Bute...... Oh wait.
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