[R-RATED] Anyone else watching the pre-lims/undercard to UFC 154?

[hayZ]

Originally Posted by -Swizzy-

Silva isn't scared to fight Jones. Most of Silva's training partners and friends are in that division and he doesn't want to get in the way.

Machida, lil Nog, Texeira, Cavalcante are all his friends and training partners so there would be a very good chance that he would have to face one of them if he became LHW champ.

Silva isn't scared.

He isn't going up to LHW to start his reign as a LHW champ rather he is going there for a big money, career-defining fight. He is too old and accomplished to fight contender after contender he's been there and done that, he has earned the right to go for the big money fights now and Jon Jones is a big money fight, it will do more for his legacy than a fight vs Bisping/Weidman/GSP. He isn't fighting him purely because he does not have the advantages he has compared to the GSP fight, why did he go up earlier to fight Forrest? Machida/Lil Nog were still at 205 then, he fought Bonnar just like a month ago. He can fight vs Jon Jones and defend his 185 belt a few times and retire. He also has that frame he can move up and down easier, than a guy like GSP who has a stockier build, losing a bit of weight or putting on a bit can affect them more than people with the build of Silva.

Originally Posted by Anthony342

I think even if he beats Weidman and Bisping and continues his winning streak, I'd also, even as a Fedor fan have to give Silva serious consideration for GOAT. He's already the best UFC fighter of all time IMO.

Hell yeah, Fedor is my fave fighter ever but Fedor fought a couple of mismatches in Pride in 2007 iirc and his Bodog fight v Lindland. If he fought Barnett/Couture (not Fedors fault they didn't happen) and Brock (Fedors management being greedy and UFC being stubborn). It would cemented his legacy so much more. Everyone knows Silva will demolish Bisping, it's a style which is all wrong for Bisping and Weidman will be more interesting but he needs 2 more big wins IMO, preferably against Boetsch and Bisping to get that experience. Jon Jones and GSP present more of a challenge though, especially Jones. Chael has amazing top control and very good takedowns, his only weakness his submission defence in terms of his ground game. GSP has a better mix of striking/takedowns but he does not seem as elusive as Chael in the striking. Look at Chael in 2010, he never stopped moving and GSP is very robotic in his stand up, Silva loves that. Jones has his reach/size advance, plus his striking is a lot more diverse than GSP and he is a very good wrestler as well with lethal GnP.

To put it shortly, Fedor is the P4P best and the best heavy ever but if A.Silva beats Weidman/GSP/Jones, he would be the best. Heck if he beats Jones and GSP I would say he is.

[Anthony342]

I'd say even if he retires still on top, I would still call Silva the best ever, because that's something Fedor couldn't do, with those 3 losses, before the 2 wins leading to his retirement. Plus, Fedor hadn't held a major title belt for as long. I'll always be a huge fan of both Fedor and A. Silva though. Did you know there are even lineal title belts now in MMA? When I checked Fedor's Wikipedia page recently, it said he was lineal
heavyweight champion for nearly a decade and it has a whole separate page for other lineal champions in MMA, like boxing does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineal_...t_Championship

Yes, Jones would do more for Silva's legacy, but now we're hearing he might not fight Jones, so I figured at least Weidman, Bisping and GSP would be the next best thing. It would be great if he fought Jones as well though. Do you guys agree with these lineal MMA titles though? I know it's usually a record keeping thing and not official, but boxing did it to end confusion with all the different belts, so I guess MMA is doing it now too. Or do you guys just feel the UFC champion is the top guy in his weight class? I kind of like both.

[-Swizzy-]

Originally Posted by Anthony342

I'd say even if he retires still on top, I would still call Silva the best ever, because that's something Fedor couldn't do, with those 3 losses, before the 2 wins leading to his retirement. Plus, Fedor hadn't held a major title belt for as long. I'll always be a huge fan of both Fedor and A. Silva though. Did you know there are even lineal title belts now in MMA? When I checked Fedor's Wikipedia page recently, it said he was lineal
heavyweight champion for nearly a decade and it has a whole separate page for other lineal champions in MMA, like boxing does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineal_...t_Championship

Yes, Jones would do more for Silva's legacy, but now we're hearing he might not fight Jones, so I figured at least Weidman, Bisping and GSP would be the next best thing. It would be great if he fought Jones as well though. Do you guys agree with these lineal MMA titles though? I know it's usually a record keeping thing and not official, but boxing did it to end confusion with all the different belts, so I guess MMA is doing it now too. Or do you guys just feel the UFC champion is the top guy in his weight class? I kind of like both.

what in the blue hell is that? lineal championship? lineal OPENWEIGHT champion?

lol @ 'lineal mw champion' Anderson Silva is nowhere on the list. wtf is that bs.

most ridiculous thing I have seen in my life.

[Anthony342]

So you're saying UFC champion is more important, okay. I just thought it was kind of interesting. They seem to start with the early UFC cards to start most of their lineages.

[Anthony342]

Here's 2 more lists I found from the links on the Wiki page, they seem more accurate:

https://sites.google.com/site/mixedm...history-linear

http://www.fightmatrix.com/lineal-ch...hip-histories/

Those both include Silva and all other current champions in their respective promotions.

[-Swizzy-]

Originally Posted by Anthony342

So you're saying UFC champion is more important, okay. I just thought it was kind of interesting. They seem to start with the early UFC cards to start most of their lineages.

Its not necassarily UFC champion but just the guy who beats the best of the best in the world. I'm not a fan of lineal championships cuz it doesn't really mean that the lineal champ is the best. And I think the MW lineal list on that site is an obvious example of that. Anderson Silva isn't even on the list. It has Falcao as the current lineal mw champ, lol.

Originally Posted by Anthony342

Here's 2 more lists I found from the links on the Wiki page, they seem more accurate:

https://sites.google.com/site/mixedm...history-linear

http://www.fightmatrix.com/lineal-ch...hip-histories/

Those both include Silva and all other current champions in their respective promotions.

Wow I love the fightmatrix site. Good find.

I love sites that actually have a formula to calcuate the rankings like boxrec. I have no idea how they come up with the formula but for some reason the rankings seem to be more accurate than sites that just base it on analyst opinions.

Good find.

[Anthony342]

Thanks. I also liked that spreadsheet, since it shows photos and videos of all the title wins. The lineage makes a bit more sense too. It has Silva becoming lineal middleweight champion with his first win over Sonnen.

[7_rocket]

Originally Posted by hayZ

He isn't going up to LHW to start his reign as a LHW champ rather he is going there for a big money, career-defining fight. He is too old and accomplished to fight contender after contender he's been there and done that, he has earned the right to go for the big money fights now and Jon Jones is a big money fight, it will do more for his legacy than a fight vs Bisping/Weidman/GSP. He isn't fighting him purely because he does not have the advantages he has compared to the GSP fight, why did he go up earlier to fight Forrest? Machida/Lil Nog were still at 205 then, he fought Bonnar just like a month ago. He can fight vs Jon Jones and defend his 185 belt a few times and retire. He also has that frame he can move up and down easier, than a guy like GSP who has a stockier build, losing a bit of weight or putting on a bit can affect them more than people with the build of Silva.



Hell yeah, Fedor is my fave fighter ever but Fedor fought a couple of mismatches in Pride in 2007 iirc and his Bodog fight v Lindland. If he fought Barnett/Couture (not Fedors fault they didn't happen) and Brock (Fedors management being greedy and UFC being stubborn). It would cemented his legacy so much more. Everyone knows Silva will demolish Bisping, it's a style which is all wrong for Bisping and Weidman will be more interesting but he needs 2 more big wins IMO, preferably against Boetsch and Bisping to get that experience. Jon Jones and GSP present more of a challenge though, especially Jones. Chael has amazing top control and very good takedowns, his only weakness his submission defence in terms of his ground game. GSP has a better mix of striking/takedowns but he does not seem as elusive as Chael in the striking. Look at Chael in 2010, he never stopped moving and GSP is very robotic in his stand up, Silva loves that. Jones has his reach/size advance, plus his striking is a lot more diverse than GSP and he is a very good wrestler as well with lethal GnP.

To put it shortly, Fedor is the P4P best and the best heavy ever but if A.Silva beats Weidman/GSP/Jones, he would be the best. Heck if he beats Jones and GSP I would say he is.

I love this... IF he beats this guy,, then this guy.. Always the same thing when it comes to Anderson. Who has Weidman beat that he's so much of a threat to Silva? He beat Munoz, who isn't even a top 5 fighter.

When Anderson's names get mentioned it will always be oh he needs to beat this guy or this guy to be the GOAT.

[hayZ]

Originally Posted by 7_rocket

[/B]


I love this... IF he beats this guy,, then this guy.. Always the same thing when it comes to Anderson. Who has Weidman beat that he's so much of a threat to Silva? He beat Munoz, who isn't even a top 5 fighter.

When Anderson's names get mentioned it will always be oh he needs to beat this guy or this guy to be the GOAT.

Weidman isn't really a threat to Silva, nor is anyone at 185 He is THE BEST at 185 BUT who else is there? Weidman I agree needs to fight more top fighters but he is a very promising fighter. He beat Maia on VERY short notice and executed Munoz. I see a great deal of potential in him. Who else is there at 185? Bisping? He got beat by Sonnen and Wanderlei but he would be the number two. I would love to see Weidman vs Bisping for the number #1 contender spot. Honestly 185 is deep of VERY GOOD fighters but not deep with ELITE fighters like I would say 155/170/205 are. Sonnen left, Maia moved to 170, Lombard had a pathetic showing last fight and lost, Stann is a B level fighter who loses every time he steps up his competition, Palhares lost his last fight, Belcher needs a couple of wins. Belfort is the only guy I see who is ELITE outside Bisping/Weidman right now and he has already lost to Silva, convincingly so I doubt Silva would rematch him since there is nothing to gain.

Anderson is constantly referred to as the G.O.A.T by Dana White and by quite a few fans. Being referred to as the G.O.A.T means you have to have a resume which proves you are the best and prove to the world by taking on these challenges by making superfights happen (not fighting smaller fighters than yourself), beating a steady stream of competition and beating top level guys. Anderson Silva is a phenomenal fighter, G.O.A.T? Getting there but not yet.

You wanna be called the G.O.A.T? Fight Jon Jones, get out of your comfort zone against a REAL threat, not ****ing Bonnar or picking on a smaller fighter in GSP. Honestly? I believe if Dana White spoke to Jones about that fight and really wanted it made, Jones would agree. Anderson? it'd be a much harder conversation.

[7_rocket]

Originally Posted by hayZ

Weidman isn't really a threat to Silva, nor is anyone at 185 He is THE BEST at 185 BUT who else is there? Weidman I agree needs to fight more top fighters but he is a very promising fighter. He beat Maia on VERY short notice and executed Munoz. I see a great deal of potential in him. Who else is there at 185? Bisping? He got beat by Sonnen and Wanderlei but he would be the number two. I would love to see Weidman vs Bisping for the number #1 contender spot. Honestly 185 is deep of VERY GOOD fighters but not deep with ELITE fighters like I would say 155/170/205 are. Sonnen left, Maia moved to 170, Lombard had a pathetic showing last fight and lost, Stann is a B level fighter who loses every time he steps up his competition, Palhares lost his last fight, Belcher needs a couple of wins. Belfort is the only guy I see who is ELITE outside Bisping/Weidman right now and he has already lost to Silva, convincingly so I doubt Silva would rematch him since there is nothing to gain.

Anderson is constantly referred to as the G.O.A.T by Dana White and by quite a few fans. Being referred to as the G.O.A.T means you have to have a resume which proves you are the best and prove to the world by taking on these challenges by making superfights happen (not fighting smaller fighters than yourself), beating a steady stream of competition and beating top level guys. Anderson Silva is a phenomenal fighter, G.O.A.T? Getting there but not yet.

You wanna be called the G.O.A.T? Fight Jon Jones, get out of your comfort zone against a REAL threat, not ****ing Bonnar or picking on a smaller fighter in GSP. Honestly? I believe if Dana White spoke to Jones about that fight and really wanted it made, Jones would agree. Anderson? it'd be a much harder conversation.

Not Anderson's fault his division doesn't have elite fighters, that and the fact that he makes them look like amateurs.

I think if he does fight jones he would win. Now if you wanna talk about Fedor, he's fought a few cans as well.

He bought Bonnar on short notice to save the card, I don't really count that fight anyways. Why should fighters move up out of their weight and fight? If they fight in a certain division well thats what it is. I'd rather see Silva vs Jones rather than Silva vs GSP.

As I've stated before, GSP is my fav fighter and all but he would get wrecked by Silva. Let's hope JOnes and him fight.