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#31
Old 11-13-2012, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Rumack View Post
This stuff about the 'younger generation being soft' is thousands of years old and it's no more sensible now than it was then.

If kids aren't taking up a sport it's usually because their heroes all come from other sports. Who are the biggest sporting icons in US society? What athletes have all the big endorsement deals?

Kids will take up any sport that looks like it will get them fame, girls, money, or all three, if they have the opportunity to do so. And the guys most of today's American kids see with all that good stuff for the most part are not boxers.
This isn't like years past. This is the internet/technology era.
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#32
Old 11-13-2012, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by The Nephilim View Post
The NFL was around and very popular in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc. So why didn't it impinge on US boxing in those eras as well?

The reason American HWs are not where they used to be is the fall of the Soviet Union and the freeing up of Eastern Europeans to fight professionally.

Had the Soviet Union not existed, the history of the HW division would likely be very different.

America's heavyweights of the 2000's have been **** independent of what the eastern europeans have done. The 90s heavyweights were a good era but those guys were born in the 70s and late 60s.

There are scholarships for football and basketball, there arent for boxing. The reality is boxing isnt as popular as it was and of course you loose talent to other sports.
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#33
Old 11-13-2012, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Cruise View Post
who says these guys have chins? who says they have the mentality to be 'THE man' (theyre playing team sports)? who says they have the heart to come through a beating and win?

Athleticism is only ONE part of being a boxer. No doubt some of these athletic freaks your talking about would make great boxers, but it probably isn't as many as you'd think. Most probably Wlad Klitschko would wipe the floor with these guys because he has PROVEN to have these intangibles (or cover up the ones he doesnt have)... Idk just seems like a lot of ifs and buts from American boxing fans, using arguments that could be applied every country... fact is your not putting enough into your am system and your big fights all being ppv means quality fighters arent being exposed to wide audiences. These and many more coupled with the growth of nba/nfl have reduced your heavyweight (and other weights, maybe not as drastically) output.

Dont forget it can be argued that you only dominated in the past because not enough athletes from other countries went into boxing. swings and roundabouts basically...


A chin is developed from taking punches, some are just born to take punishment, some people lack quality chins but make up for it with superior boxing ability ex. Wlad Klitschko and RJJ. I'm not saying you could throw these guys in a ring and they'd become champs, but if these guys grew up boxing I have no doubt they would.

Their athletic ability allows them to pick up things VERY fast, things that would take most guys years to learn would take them mere months. Look at Deontay Wilder the last American to win an Olympic medal. He stepped into the ring for the 1st time in late 2005, just 2 1/2 years later and with just 21 AM (16 of them in 2007) fights he qualified for the Olympics in 08 and winds up winning bronze.

How many guys with that little boxing experience could do that? Guys like Wilder are a dime a dozen in American sports. Same with Mitchell. Bryant Jennings was a regular guy playing at the rec. and is now one of the brightest prospects with very little experience.


These guys actually are in high pressure situations, nothing but greatness is expected from them. Can you imagine being 16 years old and expected to propel your school of 10,000 people to a victory over the hated rivals? They even get scouted by professionals. Some of these school games are even televised.
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#34
Old 11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cutthroat View Post
A chin is developed from taking punches, some are just born to take punishment, some people lack quality chins but make up for it with superior boxing ability ex. Wlad Klitschko and RJJ. I'm not saying you could throw these guys in a ring and they'd become champs, but if these guys grew up boxing I have no doubt they would.

Their athletic ability allows them to pick up things VERY fast, things that would take most guys years to learn would take them mere months. Look at Deontay Wilder the last American to win an Olympic medal. He stepped into the ring for the 1st time in late 2005, just 2 1/2 years later and with just 21 AM (16 of them in 2007) fights he qualified for the Olympics in 08 and winds up winning bronze.

How many guys with that little boxing experience could do that? Guys like Wilder are a dime a dozen in American sports. Same with Mitchell. Bryant Jennings was a regular guy playing at the rec. and is now one of the brightest prospects with very little experience.


These guys actually are in high pressure situations, nothing but greatness is expected from them. Can you imagine being 16 years old and expected to propel your school of 10,000 people to a victory over the hated rivals? They even get scouted by professionals. Some of these school games are even televised.
Again. I've yet to see some of these "athletes" pack a mean punch, or put any speed on their punches. Punching is a whole nother ball game. That, you are born with.

Which is why I say, we will NEVER EVER see another Tyson. So, who cares???
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#35
Old 11-13-2012, 10:50 PM
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The same goes for the lower weights and European Soccer though.

European soccer is by far the biggest sport in Europe and it honestly do take away a huge chunk of the 140-175 bracket for Europeans.
To say that Cristiano Ronaldo at 6'2 and 175 would not have been a great SMW prospect is foolish as well. Lionel Messi would have been an amazing WW prospect. Look at Mario Baotelli or Emmanuel Abadeyor, imagine if they wanted to be LHW'S instead of soccer stars? Other sports do take away from boxing,
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#36
Old 11-13-2012, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FightScorer View Post
The same goes for the lower weights and European Soccer though.

European soccer is by far the biggest sport in Europe and it honestly do take away a huge chunk of the 140-175 bracket for Europeans.
To say that Cristiano Ronaldo at 6'2 and 175 would not have been a great SMW prospect is foolish as well. Lionel Messi would have been an amazing WW prospect. Look at Mario Baotelli or Emmanuel Abadeyor, imagine if they wanted to be LHW'S instead of soccer stars? Other sports do take away from boxing,


they do. ronaldo would probably be a bigger martinez, but would need to put in the work and be tough. could he be that guy? sure.

messi likewise.


the nfl and NBA are permeated by big men. almost exclusively big men. they average 270 in the nfl. in the nba they average 6'9"... 6'9" is f#ckin big, man.

these guys are huge, athletic, and dedicated. they're a huge improvement over the current boxing stock in the states, a country that used to produce the world's best HW.

tony thompson, chris arreola, and eddie chambers are not the best boxers we could produce. they're playing basketball and football. it is virtually understood by american boxing media.

Last edited by New England; 11-13-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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#37
Old 11-13-2012, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
they do. ronaldo would probably be a bigger martinez, but would need to put in the work and be tough. could he be that guy? sure.

messi likewise.


the nfl and NBA are permeated by big men. almost exclusively big men. they average 270 in the nfl. in the nba they average 6'9"... 6'9" is f#ckin big, man.

these guys are huge, athletic, and dedicated. they're a huge improvement over the current boxing stock in the states, a country that used to produce the world's best HW.

tony thompson, chris arreola, and eddie chambers are not the best boxers we could produce. they're playing basketball and football. it is virtually understood by american boxing media.
This is a great point and Lennox,Bowe,Mercer, did all play football. Lewis got multiple football offers and it shows him as a WR in high school.

I can gaurantee if Lewis was a 18 year old today living in America and a boxing prospect, if he was offered football scholaships he would have said yes.

Another thing a bit off subject but I talked to my friend regarding boxing and he said guys in the 70's and 70's grew up with the prospects because it was so common on TV. Mike Tyson fights as a prospect was avaiable to the masses, Broner fights is aviable to 'HBO' only.


Although I do think the NFL have the best prospects in terms of their WR'S, the NBA PF'S are probably a bit TOO tall to be ultra effective. The best super heavyweight height is probably around 6'5-6'7, 240-250.
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#38
Old 11-13-2012, 11:09 PM
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forget about all the physical aspects....mentally, and do all of these football players and other athletes have the HEART to make it far in boxing???

football is very physical, sure, as is a lot of other sports...but boxing is an entire different animal when it comes to the mental and heart aspect of it.

there are countless boxing prospects who did nothing but box who had all the physical gifts, and perhaps even a strong mind...but who lacked the enormous heart to make it far in the professional ranks...our great idol mike tyson was one who lacked some of these aspects too..
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#39
Old 11-13-2012, 11:17 PM
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Also the claim that

'there are no great American HW'S because the klithsckos beat them all'

will have validity if there were American HW'S in this era that was considered great to begin with. Nobody said Chambers was great PRIOR to him losing to Wlad. Nobody said Arreloa was the 2nd Tyson. Nobody.

Now if there was someone that actaully showed the skills of a Prime Tyson or a Prime Bowe/Holyfield, AND GO ON to lose against Wlad or Vitali.. Then the claim have validity.
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#40
Old 11-13-2012, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
forget about all the physical aspects....mentally, and do all of these football players and other athletes have the HEART to make it far in boxing???

football is very physical, sure, as is a lot of other sports...but boxing is an entire different animal when it comes to the mental and heart aspect of it.

there are countless boxing prospects who did nothing but box who had all the physical gifts, and perhaps even a strong mind...but who lacked the enormous heart to make it far in the professional ranks...our great idol mike tyson was one who lacked some of these aspects too..


the current crop don't even have the heart to get in shape


these are dedicated athletes

football is a brutal game.

short answer, yes.
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