Is Joe Calzaghe an ATG?

[D-MiZe]

Joe was the product of nothing less than Warren's inability to matchmake, nothing to do with being stuck in between eras. Look no further than Nathan Cleverly and Ricky Burns to see his handy work.

The only case Calzaghe fans can make is if... and but...

[valero]

I wanted to see Joe vs:

Ward
Froch
Dawson
Martinez

[SonnyDempsey]

To me, you can't really judge a fighter's ATG status on resume alone. If that were the only criteria, Roy Jones wouldn't be included. But Roy Jones is definitely an ATG, even though he never fought Benn, McClellan, etc.

I tend to rate ATG status based on a visceral impression I get when I imagine the fighter in question being matched against a great fighter from the past. And when I do that, I imagine that Joe Calzaghe would be competitive (to say the least) with any SMW in history. He's slippery, awkward, and has a granite chin. He's also undefeated and has a win over Bernard Hopkins, which says plenty. I don't count the Roy Jones win, because we all know Roy was beyond shot at that point.

[S. Saddler 1310]

Originally Posted by SonnyDempsey

To me, you can't really judge a fighter's ATG status on resume alone. If that were the only criteria, Roy Jones wouldn't be included. But Roy Jones is definitely an ATG, even though he never fought Benn, McClellan, etc.

I tend to rate ATG status based on a visceral impression I get when I imagine the fighter in question being matched against a great fighter from the past. And when I do that, I imagine that Joe Calzaghe would be competitive (to say the least) with any SMW in history. He's slippery, awkward, and has a granite chin. He's also undefeated and has a win over Bernard Hopkins, which says plenty. I don't count the Roy Jones win, because we all know Roy was beyond shot at that point.

Jones' resume >>> Calzaghe's.

and Roy's talent was some of the most extraordinary and spectacular the sport has ever seen. Joe Calzaghe's talent, not so much.

Hopkins was a very good win at that point in time, rather than a Great one.

Floyd Mayweather is a case of a fighter with a very good but less than Great resume receiving somewhat of a pass to ATG status by virtue of quite perceptible extraordinary ability.
Calzaghe's resume isn't even on that level. and his talent, while notable, is just not striking enough to make up such a deficit in terms of achievement.

[Skittlez]

Originally Posted by S. Saddler 1310

Jones' resume >>> Calzaghe's.

and Roy's talent was some of the most extraordinary and spectacular the sport has ever seen. Joe Calzaghe's talent, not so much.

Hopkins was a very good win at that point in time, rather than a Great one.

Floyd Mayweather is a case of a fighter with a very good but less than Great resume receiving somewhat of a pass to ATG status by virtue of quite perceptible extraordinary ability.
Calzaghe's resume isn't even on that level. and his talent, while notable, is just not striking enough to make up such a deficit in terms of achievement.

Very well stated. Good read from you.
I disagree it was a very good win in regards to Hopkins though.

I say it's a 'good win' bordering around there.

The reason is that Prime Roy in comparison to the Roy who beat Hopkins is basically more or less the same person. They always rely on their freakish reflexes and athleticism. I guess Prime Roy set more traps and marginally improved his overall boxing techniques.

PRIME Hopkins though is lightyears ahead of the version that Roy beat. Prime Hopkins fixed all his fundamental flaws he had against Roy, fixed all those horrendous defensive lapses but still had his athleticism and stamina.

Prime B-HOP would not make any of those mistakes he made against Roy, BUT Prime Roy would still fight more or less the same as the version that fought Hopkins.

[IMDAZED]

Originally Posted by Skittlez

Very well stated. Good read from you.
I disagree it was a very good win in regards to Hopkins though.

I say it's a 'good win' bordering around there.

The reason is that Prime Roy in comparison to the Roy who beat Hopkins is basically more or less the same person. They always rely on their freakish reflexes and athleticism. I guess Prime Roy set more traps and marginally improved his overall boxing techniques.

PRIME Hopkins though is lightyears ahead of the version that Roy beat. Prime Hopkins fixed all his fundamental flaws he had against Roy, fixed all those horrendous defensive lapses but still had his athleticism and stamina.

Prime B-HOP would not make any of those mistakes he made against Roy, BUT Prime Roy would still fight more or less the same as the version that fought Hopkins.

Prime Roy is NOT the same as the Roy who fought Hopkins at all.

[Skittlez]

Originally Posted by IMDAZED

Prime Roy is NOT the same as the Roy who fought Hopkins at all.

Can you list areas where there is a difference?

I musta forgot.

[Prince-Naz]

Yes he destroyed Roy Jones Jr and beat a prime Bernard Hopkins

[pelonxsoldier28]

Hell no. His resume is filled with bums, with the exception of Kessler and 2 way past their prime boxing greats!!!! You gotta cross the pond to the mecca of boxing early in your career and fight the best, Joe did not!!!!

[IMDAZED]

Originally Posted by Skittlez

Can you list areas where there is a difference?

I musta forgot.

You sure did. Jones, when he fought Hopkins, had as many questions surrounding him as Prince Naseem did before fighting Tom Johnson.
Anyway, compare that Jones to the one who entered the LHW division, for instance; the tricks of being a veteran that come over time. The Jones who fought Hopkins was still amateurish in the way he fought in the trenches. He was still a couple years away from displaying solid skill there. The Jones that fought. And he was still not capable of going a hard 12, something he admitted to later.

When Hopkins fought Jones, it was for a vacant title and Hopkins was the #1 contender, Jones #2. It wasn't until his sizzling KO over Thomas Tate that the rest of the boxing world began to believe. And he really didn't start flashing that consistent skill in his performances until he met Sosa and then Toney. The rest is history.