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#11
Old 10-12-2012, 07:18 AM
antk
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A punch landed ok but would not have knocked out a fly!
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#12
Old 10-12-2012, 08:04 AM
Ray Corso
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Punch was very real, he got dropped over his feet! Could he get up? I think so but I don't know why he didn't and no one else does either. Ray.
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#13
Old 10-12-2012, 10:14 AM
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Ali caught Liston with a quick counter-punch, Liston went down whether from being off balance or slightly dazed. A fighter like Juan Manuel Marquez or Muhammad Ali himself would've gotten up immediately, but Liston was not used to hitting the canvas. Fighters like him, when they go down, they usually stay down as well. He is the fighter who is supposed to have the other on the canvas.

Liston did eventually gather himself up despite the embarrassment, only to find Ali hovering over him with the referee Walcott completely unable to handle the unexpected situation. Liston refused to get up until Ali is finally directed to a neutral corner after which Liston does get up. He was never actually given an official count by Walcott.

At this point Walcott goes over to Nat Fleischer, who tells him that Liston had been down for more than 10 seconds (even though it's the referee's count that matters, not anybody else's) and Walcott proclaims an end to the bout while Ali and Liston have resumed fighting.

A terrible officiating job by Walcott mixed with an unwillingness to get up from the canvas on Liston's part along with Ali's wild antics made up the situation, but I do not think it was a contemplated dive by Liston. Liston was very vocal about his criticism of Walcott after the bout and never considered it a true loss.

Last edited by TheGreatA; 10-12-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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#14
Old 10-12-2012, 10:20 AM
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walcott made a complete mess of it.
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#15
Old 10-12-2012, 12:23 PM
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1. Legit punch that Sonny never saw coming. For everyone claiming that the punch "wouldn't have knocked out a fly", let's see you get hit with a shot from a 215 pound world class heavyweight with your eyes closed. Anyone who has ever boxed knows that the medium-powered shot you don't see coming can do more damage than the high-powered punch you are ready for.

2. Liston was legitimately dazed and knocked down from it.

3. Liston got up and continued fighting without ever being counted out, since Ali didn't get into a neutral corner in time for a count to be started.

4. The fight should have continued.

5. Jersey Joe Walcott decided that Nat Fleischer deserved honorary referee status and stopped the bout on Fleischer's suggestion.


If Sonny was in the tank, why would he have gotten up until he was sure the fight was over?

Last edited by SBleeder; 10-12-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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#16
Old 10-12-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyland View Post
First of all, that was no phantom punch!

My only question is the awkward way Sonny rolled over on his back.

I believe he was going to stay down but changed his mind, got up and was defending himself when the fight was stopped.
this is my view as well. Ali was hovering over sonny so he did not get up right away and a writer called out to walcott that he had been down for 10. when the ref stopped it he was throwing punches at ali. It is a stoppage only surpassed by the dempsey tunney 2nd fight as far the debate it has created over the years.
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#17
Old 10-12-2012, 03:53 PM
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The knockdown was real and Liston was stunned. The punch was very good, but didn't cleanly knock Liston out. After that, the fight was butchered by Walcott. Liston was most likely going to get up. I don't think there was a dive or a fix.
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