Comments Thread For: Miguel Cotto Praises Orlando Cruz For Coming Out

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by $ j-210 $

lol at the cotto circle jerk...class my ass any real puerto rican will tell you that cotto is a alcoholic snob...

Yea I never understood that "class" dude has. He beats up on old men, cheats on his wife, displays homosexual stuff, gets perverted with the maid, etc. Them dudes are just blind. I can see right through that bullshit.

[J-Smooth]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Yea I never understood that "class" dude has. He beats up on old men, cheats on his wife, displays homosexual stuff, gets perverted with the maid, etc. Them dudes are just blind. I can see right through that bullshit.

yeah sexually assaulting his friend on 24/7 was really messed up and I didn't like how he just ran to the locker room with out giving an interview after the first margo fight and the mayweather fight...

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by $ j-210 $

yeah sexually assaulting his friend on 24/7 was really messed up and I didn't like how he just ran to the locker room with out giving an interview after the first margo fight and the mayweather fight...

Yea that was total class running to his locker cause he didn't get his way. for Cotto.

Watch...They're going to come out and say their typical I'm a hater, yet they're too dumb to see it realistically.

[J-Smooth]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

Yea that was total class running to his locker cause he didn't get his way. for Cotto.

Watch...They're going to come out and say their typical I'm a hater, yet they're too dumb to see it realistically.

they cant handle the truth carnal

[streetwaves]

Originally Posted by chaos

Being born that way (if in fact that's the case) is a mistake of nature. Like being born a retard. It's an aberration, plain and simple. I don't know for a fact if people are born that way or not because so far there's no evidence for either side, but I'm answering the question hypothetically.

It depends what you mean by a 'mistake of nature'. Nature does not make decisions, per se, and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' direction for it to move in. Like being born a retard, you could just as easily say that being born a genius is an aberration. It's clearly not normal, but there are no moral problems with it. The same goes for being born a homosexual.

Acting on it, however, is obviously a choice and one that I think is wrong, but it's none of my business what people do behind closed doors. Just like I think it's wrong for consenting adults to engage in incest. I'm sure most people will agree that incest is wrong, but there's no need to explain why, it just goes without saying. I'm confident that even you wouldn't argue with me about incest being wrong; well that's how I think for both situations. I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm just giving an example of two things that I think are wrong in and of themselves. I don't need to spoon feed you every reason why I think it's wrong because that's not the purpose of this discussion. There's obviously other reasons for my personal views, but I'm more interested in explaining why they're abnormal.

Incest is a rather strong example. There are many other examples you could use that would not warrant near-unanimous agreement as to their wrongness. Such is the case with homosexuality. For the record, I do find incest to be wrong, but that's a gut feeling of mine. I tend to avoid making decisions based on gut feelings, which is why I'm open to discussing the topic of whether incest is objectively 'wrong' in terms of moral value.

However, as wrong as one thing is, it has no bearing on whether another thing is wrong or not and it's not a valid argument in itself. It can be a personal opinion of yours, but it's not worth arguing in defense of.

Basically, I'm making an over-arching argument that being born like that (again, if in fact that's the case) is not the way it was meant to be. And a very simple example to prove it is the procreation argument. Just like a man/woman being born sterile is not the way it was meant to be. That doesn't mean you persecute them, but it means there's nothing wrong with acknowledging the fact that they're abnormal. How much value one puts on that abnormality is up to the individual person. It just happens that the majority of the world considers it abnormal.

Abnormal could simply be used as a synonym for 'uncommon' in this case. If homosexuality is something you're born with - a distinct possibility considering its existence in the animal kingdom as well - it's completely 'natural', it's just not as common and does not serve an obvious purpose. Perhaps it is an 'aberration', but again, there are all sorts of aberrations and some are good, neutral, or arguably bad. My position is that homosexuality hurts no one, and is identical to heterosexual relationships minus the procreation. I see no moral value attached to procreation, and I think the only way a person really can is if they're religious. So in other words, where does the negative side to it come in for the rest of the world? It would seem to me that the homosexuals are those who have it rough, not us because of them.

Now, if they kept it to themselves no one would care. Do we need to have straight parades every year? No, because no one gives a sh_t; it should be the same way with them. The problem is that society wants to tell them they're normal and so they want to be treated like a normal couple, whether it's for the purpose of marriage or adopting kids, which I'm obviously against in both instances, but that's a whole separate discussion that's best left for another time.

This is a nearly identical argument to saying "why do we need black history month"? "Why do we need black pride events"? I think I'm allowed such a comparison considering the ones you've used. The reason that oppressed or looked-down-upon groups deserve such things are because they for one thing need to fight for equal treatment. You and I have it very, very easy in life, as I'm assuming we're both straight. I've never had to hide my sexuality. I've never had to worry about getting beaten up about it at school. I've never had to think of myself as **** because people like you (just being honest) think of me as merely an aberration, or one of nature's "****-ups". Come on. If there is nothing morally wrong about what such a person does, they deserve all the support they can find.

In the end, my argument is this: whether born with, developed, or chosen, homosexual acts are private and harmless acts performed by two consenting human beings and have zero effect beyond the walls they're performed in. There is nothing immoral about it, so they should not be condemned.

As you alluded to, there are likely other motivations for you, and I'm willing to bet some money they're religious in nature. That's fine, go on believing that stuff if it makes you feel better. But I would also venture a guess that if you one day dropped that sh1t, all this "non-hateful disapproval" of homosexuals would disappear. I view the way you think of and (possibly treat) homosexuals as inhuman, to be honest.

[Ravens Fan]

Originally Posted by chaos

The reason I'm responding is because most like-minded guys (like the one's who've been pm'ing me) shy away from these discussions because they don't want to deal with the typically cliched homophobe/closet case responses. I'm showing them that they can deal with the f@g loving pc brigade with regular arguments. If you don't like the words I use then tough sh_t, look at the names I've been called in this thread, you think it bothers me? I don't use the word out of hate, I use it cause it's the word I've always used in casual conversation and I'm not going to change it for a boxing forum of all things. There's not one act I've done in my life that could be construed as hate towards any group. I've never advocated violence or persecution of f@gs. We're having an online discussion about why some, like myself, consider it wrong. I don't preach this in everyday life cause there's no need to. The discussion came up here so I'm responding. I've made plenty of boxing related posts but that's not what the discussion in this thread is about. The hate and intolerance is coming from you guys.

You keep spinning it but you had past the point of the simply thinking something was wrong about 22 to 25 post ago. And you are now way on the side of hate. And again it is all about how you present yourself and I certainly haven't called you anything derogatory. And I thought you would be use to people using those kind of terms. That is since you spend your time in casual conversations talking about ass bandits and f@gs. It sounds as if they may actually be speaking your type of language. I am also not surprised that you use derogatory terms about a group of people in casual conversation. And why I am not surprised? Because that is what bigots and their friends do. So, again no real surprise there. And you actually sound proud that you hate people because they happen to be different. And just because as you claim that you don't preach this stuff doesn't change the fact that you are in fact a hateful bigot. And if don't mind I am going to ad you to my morning prayers because it really seems to me that you need all the help that you can get.

[charlieg]

Originally Posted by southpaw_07

No normal human being is homosexual, stop being so politically correct.
There is a reason why homosexuality is so popular these days, people are too afraid to voice their opinion and just wanna go with the flow.
yeah, make love not war, but not with someone from my own gender....

Said like somebody who got ****ed in the ass and hurt by it, and wants to blame society for making him want to open up his arsehole for the nearest c0ck

People just wanna go with the flow.... hahahaha... what a lame excuse for slipping and falling over on some d!ck.

Earth to morons: nobody makes you want to suck on a big one. If that turns you on, that's because it is what you like, not society influencing you to like it.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by jasons0660

Chaos,

You don't like looking at it? Don't watch, simple as that. So long as equable standards of decency aren't being breached, I don't see why you simply can't look the other way.

Keep in mind that words like norma/abnormal are relative terms. What you find normal may be abnormal to someone else. What you find abnormal may be normal to someone else. You're entitled to your view but you must realize that it is an opinion based on an opinion, and not necessarily an opinion based on fact.

The real issue here may be your own personal frame of mind. You may have had experiences of some sort - I'm interested to know if that's the case. A bad experience can traumatize some people.

No, no bad experiences to report. I was never touched by an uncle either but I still dislike paedophiles, is that ok with you?

Also, what you call normal cannot possibly be normal, it's simple biology. Just like being born a retard is not normal. What if someone gets off on watching snuff videos? Is that normal? How about the guys in Crash getting off on car accidents, is that normal? Some sh_t is just f_cked up no matter how you look at it. Doesn't mean they should be persecuted, but it's incorrect to call them normal.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by streetwaves

It depends what you mean by a 'mistake of nature'. Nature does not make decisions, per se, and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' direction for it to move in. Like being born a retard, you could just as easily say that being born a genius is an aberration. It's clearly not normal, but there are no moral problems with it. The same goes for being born a homosexual.


Incest is a rather strong example. There are many other examples you could use that would not warrant near-unanimous agreement as to their wrongness. Such is the case with homosexuality. For the record, I do find incest to be wrong, but that's a gut feeling of mine. I tend to avoid making decisions based on gut feelings, which is why I'm open to discussing the topic of whether incest is objectively 'wrong' in terms of moral value.

However, as wrong as one thing is, it has no bearing on whether another thing is wrong or not and it's not a valid argument in itself. It can be a personal opinion of yours, but it's not worth arguing in defense of.


Abnormal could simply be used as a synonym for 'uncommon' in this case. If homosexuality is something you're born with - a distinct possibility considering its existence in the animal kingdom as well - it's completely 'natural', it's just not as common and does not serve an obvious purpose. Perhaps it is an 'aberration', but again, there are all sorts of aberrations and some are good, neutral, or arguably bad. My position is that homosexuality hurts no one, and is identical to heterosexual relationships minus the procreation. I see no moral value attached to procreation, and I think the only way a person really can is if they're religious. So in other words, where does the negative side to it come in for the rest of the world? It would seem to me that the homosexuals are those who have it rough, not us because of them.


This is a nearly identical argument to saying "why do we need black history month"? "Why do we need black pride events"? I think I'm allowed such a comparison considering the ones you've used. The reason that oppressed or looked-down-upon groups deserve such things are because they for one thing need to fight for equal treatment. You and I have it very, very easy in life, as I'm assuming we're both straight. I've never had to hide my sexuality. I've never had to worry about getting beaten up about it at school. I've never had to think of myself as **** because people like you (just being honest) think of me as merely an aberration, or one of nature's "****-ups". Come on. If there is nothing morally wrong about what such a person does, they deserve all the support they can find.

In the end, my argument is this: whether born with, developed, or chosen, homosexual acts are private and harmless acts performed by two consenting human beings and have zero effect beyond the walls they're performed in. There is nothing immoral about it, so they should not be condemned.

As you alluded to, there are likely other motivations for you, and I'm willing to bet some money they're religious in nature. That's fine, go on believing that stuff if it makes you feel better. But I would also venture a guess that if you one day dropped that sh1t, all this "non-hateful disapproval" of homosexuals would disappear. I view the way you think of and (possibly treat) homosexuals as inhuman, to be honest.

Let me put your mind to ease about the incest thing. Babies born of inbreeding have about a 50% chance of having some kind of birth defect or genetic deficiency. So you don't need to struggle with gut feelings.

When black people have parades they don't show up in chains and panties, oiled up and dressed as women. Gay parades are always sexual in nature, because that's what most of their lifestyle is about. You don't see this in parades for chinatown, vaisakhi, st patrick's day, christmas, black pride etc. Only in gay parades. Why do you think disease spreads so quickly within their community? Because you have a bunch of guys who all think the same and just want to get dirty. It would be like if women had no self-control and thought just like us. It would be a mess. The normal way of a man and woman being together creates a proper balance for these things. Guys chase tail and women hold back so you get a certain amount of harmony and stability. Obviously there's always exceptions but in the gay community promiscuity is the norm. Again, if you disagree all you need to do is look at the prevalence of disease in their community and the speed with which it spreads.

[chaos]

Originally Posted by Ravens Fan

You keep spinning it but you had past the point of the simply thinking something was wrong about 22 to 25 post ago. And you are now way on the side of hate. And again it is all about how you present yourself and I certainly haven't called you anything derogatory. And I thought you would be use to people using those kind of terms. That is since you spend your time in casual conversations talking about ass bandits and f@gs. It sounds as if they may actually be speaking your type of language. I am also not surprised that you use derogatory terms about a group of people in casual conversation. And why I am not surprised? Because that is what bigots and their friends do. So, again no real surprise there. And you actually sound proud that you hate people because they happen to be different. And just because as you claim that you don't preach this stuff doesn't change the fact that you are in fact a hateful bigot. And if don't mind I am going to ad you to my morning prayers because it really seems to me that you need all the help that you can get.

Let me explain to you the difference between hating someone and disapproving of their lifestyle. If I was walking down a dark alley in the middle of nowhere, and I came across Sean Hannity, I would beat him to a pulp with my bare hands until there was nothing left of him. I would do to his whole body what the guy in Drive did in the elevator scene. That's how I think when I hate someone. If I was in the same alley and I saw a f@g, I wouldn't give two sh_ts. It wouldn't even draw my attention. I'm talking about it now because the subject came up, it's not something I concern myself with otherwise. I have opinions and beliefs about a lot of things, but it just so happens that this came up so we're talking about it. And I only jumped in when I saw someone make a point I disagreed with, I never condemned anyone.

And when I use the "derogatory" terms (f@gs, ass-bandit) you mentioned, they're not directed at anyone. I'm not sure how you equate that with people personally attacking/insulting me. I've answered back a couple of times but never in an extreme manner.