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#31
Old 10-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Russian Crushin
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Originally Posted by Haglerwins View Post
I said NOTHING about dumbing anything down. I said the subject matter was NOT taught prior to the month or so we had a special after school program for it in JUNIOR HIGH. Not even being aware of info not long prior to a test isn't a measure of intelligence or aptitude.

The SAT is a different animal and HS does make you aware of what kind of test you're taking though you never practice in the classroom. When I took the ones for the HS tests back in the day, we were being hit with all kinds of **** for the first time.

It speaks volumes when only 2 kids passed it, and the rest of us weren't slouches. And the hispanic kid who passed was NOT smarter than me in general (we had global studies together and I'd run rings around him).
And its your schools responsibility to teach you how to pass a specialized test that basically has nothing to do with them? Should they also teach you how to do taxes?

Yes the subject matter is not taught (tho it was to me because i was in the honors program) but that is YOUR responsibility alone. The test is the same every year and to say anyone is surprised by it is quite amusing with sooo much info around

Obviously the hispanic kids who passed ARE smarter then you because they actually thought outside the box and learned the material

Dont blame the school, blames yourself
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#32
Old 10-06-2012, 01:39 PM
Haglerwins
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Originally Posted by Russian Crushin View Post
And its your schools responsibility to teach you how to pass a specialized test that basically has nothing to do with them? Should they also teach you how to do taxes?

Yes the subject matter is not taught (tho it was to me because i was in the honors program) but that is YOUR responsibility alone. The test is the same every year and to say anyone is surprised by it is quite amusing with sooo much info around

Obviously the hispanic kids who passed ARE smarter then you because they actually thought outside the box and learned the material

Dont blame the school, blames yourself
My highschool did actually, but this was over 15 years ago.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to aptitude, your question is erroneous. The public school should be accountable for your complete unfamiliarity with the subject material in the exams as it's not like it's alien and you're being taught metaphysics, that does not mean encompassing preparing you for the test.
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#33
Old 10-06-2012, 02:17 PM
Russian Crushin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haglerwins View Post
My highschool did actually, but this was over 15 years ago.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to aptitude, your question is erroneous. The public school should be accountable for your complete unfamiliarity with the subject material in the exams as it's not like it's alien and you're being taught metaphysics, that does not mean encompassing preparing you for the test.
This is an advances specialized exam in which you're not required to take

The exam is the same every year and the material on the test is known beforehand and widely available

And no schools are not responsible for teaching material that has nothing to do with them, it's pretty simple

Just take responsibility for yourself, it's simple
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#34
Old 10-06-2012, 02:43 PM
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if the NAACP's goal is to want more blacks and latinos in these schools...then thats a GOOD GOAL to have.

However, their approach of crying racism is wrong. They should work to promote good parenting/study habits among kids, instead of blaming an unbiased test.

I took the test once and failed, but i preferred to go to a HS here in NY that was closer to my home in Long Island anyway at the time

Its a hard test u have to study for, hence its an "elite school"

If the NAACP wants to force these schools to accept undeserving kids, those kids will probably fail their classes anyway in these schools, so WTF is the point
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#35
Old 10-06-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by devildg View Post
if the NAACP's goal is to want more blacks and latinos in these schools...then thats a GOOD GOAL to have.

However, their approach of crying racism is wrong. They should work to promote good parenting/study habits among kids, instead of blaming an unbiased test.

I took the test once and failed, but i preferred to go to a HS here in NY that was closer to my home in Long Island anyway at the time

Its a hard test u have to study for, hence its an "elite school"

If the NAACP wants to force these schools to accept undeserving kids, those kids will probably fail their classes anyway in these schools, so WTF is the point

I agree; the issue they should be trying to address is why these kids are scoring so much lower on these tests, and what they can do to help parents, teachers, and schools improve it.

Not just trying to demand tests are inherently biased, or racist (which seems ridiculous to me), and like you said - getting the kids into schools which they probably will not have success anyway.

The problem is not the tests, it's something either at home, or at school. . . Or in a lot of cases - the kid's attitude, and work ethic.

Last edited by UglyPug; 10-06-2012 at 02:51 PM..
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#36
Old 10-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Haglerwins View Post
Racist? No.

Exclusive? Yes.

I took the tests trying to get into the top 3 NYC high schools when I was younger and I can emphatically state the public school curriculum from grade school to junior high DOES NOT prepare you for the Stuy's test, etc.

For a month or so before exams my junior high implemented an after school program to prepare those of us with potential for these and it was a gross failure.

It was too much material to understand and retain ALIEN to what we were currently being taught in the classroom, to cover.

I think 1 hispanic and an asian girlfriend of mine passed it, but these were kids that were already ahead of us from a readiness and work ethic standpoint (these kids weren't with my class of grade school -> junior high converts, their former school was at another location originally).

Blacks and Hispanics could pass these tests in large numbers if the public school curriculum didn't baby them in general. That's where great parenting making up the difference of just satisfactory learning environments comes in.

We could even overcome our 'dumb' parents handicap if the Board of Ed. was looking to push the kids.. and there lies the actual line of speculative sabotage to minorities, when you see a system in place that doesn't take care of a majority of students.

Why when I take a test to a specialized school, is it unlike ANYTHING I was doing in the classroom at the time? It's one thing if we couldn't handle the load, but the tests' subject matter was not being covered at all in our classes during school hours.

More power to those kids who could still apply themselves in the face of an OBVIOUS obstacle looking back on it, they already had the tools to overcome not being overly familiar with the content beforehand, but for the rest of us?

That was some bullsh*t , and in my honest opinion it's a test that clearly filters out: those who were aware of what kind of material were on the tests prior or have the mental acumen to again, overcome the obstacle of new things to learn and understand in a very short time - from those who would be considered undesirable.

Nobody wants dummies, but it may look like it goes beyond an education issue when so many minority kids with potential are excluded from making the cut of best of the best, because of my guess that it's by design to keep the behavioral negatives of a lot of these kids out of prestigious classrooms.

It's ingenious in a way, even if it were discriminatory, there's no way you could point the finger at it transparently.

And it is true that you can beat your intelligence lot in life. I'm a living example.

I'm turning out better than if I went to any specialized school.

"We could even overcome our 'dumb' parents handicap if the Board of Ed. was looking to push the kids.. and there lies the actual line of speculative sabotage to minorities, when you see a system in place that doesn't take care of a majority of students."

It's nothing to do with 'dumb' parents. You should read my posts. There are plenty of 'dumb' chinese immigrants who owned chinese takeaways and laundry businesses who have well educated kids. Educated to a much higher standard than they ever were.

The reason these kids do so well (and i know many examples of children who have uneducated stupid parents but have gone on to good universities, and in one case, oxford university) is because of their family centric attitude and their parent's attitude and time commitment to their kids. These dumb chinese parents don't have the skills or time (in some cases) to teach their kids their subject matter so what they do is work like dogs to provide good study material and tutoring. The only difference between some asian poor families and some poor black/hispanic families is their attitude to work and family.

It sounds like you are biased because your 'dumb' parents didn't realise that the test you took had a lot more depth than the school cirriculum and they failed to notify you about this and thus failed to get you the books you needed. That was just unfortunate, but in the case of chinese 'dumb' parents, they would most likely have tried to speak to somebody who knew better and would have gotten the information needed for their children to succeed.

The reason you failed is because your parents were ill informed. It's not because they were dumb. They just didn't ask the right questions probably due to a lack of persistence so it's a personality issue.

Also, schools shouldn't be required to teach the study material for non compulsory tests. Why should the school waste resources to provide additional tutoring/teaching for a selective small number of pupils who want to take a test most of their students won't be taking.

Last edited by Xercen; 10-06-2012 at 05:56 PM..
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#37
Old 10-06-2012, 05:33 PM
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So let me get this straight...this is a test that students in the area know of and can study for, as you could for SAT's or ACT's, but because the types of problems on the test aren't covered in YOUR school, it's unfair, biased and "racist"? Don't most tests have pretests and study guides that prep you for this? Sounds to me like it's a case of laziness, being unprepared, or not taking advantage of all the help you can get.
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