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#11
Old 10-05-2012, 08:44 PM
SCtrojansbaby
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Originally Posted by TBear View Post
I can contest Valero's addition to the list for the same reason we don't see Jamie Garza and Tyrone Brunson on the list.
Which one of those guys were undefeated 2 division champions?
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#12
Old 10-05-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBear View Post
I can contest Valero's addition to the list for the same reason we don't see Jamie Garza and Tyrone Brunson on the list.
Garza is a valid comparison. He looked like he was going to be a legend for awhile. He won a title and could really hit. Brunson was exposed as a fraud though long before he was any type of contender.
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#13
Old 10-05-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
Which one of those guys were undefeated 2 division champions?
Joey Gamache was an undefeated two division champ. Bet no one could tell me who he beat for the WBA superfeatherweight and lightweight titles without looking it up.

My point was that Garza and Brunson were great punchers against who they were fighting but no one compares them to Carlos Zarate or Ruben Olivares for that same reason.
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#14
Old 10-05-2012, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
Garza is a valid comparison. He looked like he was going to be a legend for awhile. He won a title and could really hit. Brunson was exposed as a fraud though long before he was any type of contender.
Agree about Brunson, but I was questioning the level of opposition of Valerio with my statement. A level that I believe you might agree should be valuable in assessing all time lists.

Last edited by TBear; 10-06-2012 at 06:05 AM.
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#15
Old 10-05-2012, 11:40 PM
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roberto duran
thomas hearns
wilfredo gomez
george foreman
rocky marcanio
earnie shavers
joe louis
jimmy wild
archie moore
ray robinson
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#16
Old 10-05-2012, 11:47 PM
Scott9945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBear View Post
Agree about Brunson, but I was questioning the level of opposition of Valerio with my statement. A level that I you might agree should be valuable in assessing all time lists.
I'm convinced about Valero's genuine power, but absolutely agree about standards for all time greatness. And based on achievements he doesn't cut it.
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#17
Old 10-06-2012, 05:35 AM
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no order:

edwin valero
jack dempsey
sam langford
stan ketchel
bob fitzsimmons
sonny liston
george foreman
ricardo lopez
pipino cuevas
julian jackson
mike tyson
joe louis
rocky marciano
roberto duran
tommy hearns
bob foster
earnie shavers

more than 10, and there's a few missed no doubt.
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#18
Old 10-06-2012, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TBear View Post
Agree about Brunson, but I was questioning the level of opposition of Valerio with my statement. A level that I you might agree should be valuable in assessing all time lists.
Valero has stopped guys with track records of having great chins. Pitlua who allegedly hadn't been knocked down since the 90s. Demarco and Velazquez are 2 others.
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#19
Old 10-06-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
Valero has stopped guys with track records of having great chins. Pitlua who allegedly hadn't been knocked down since the 90s. Demarco and Velazquez are 2 others.
Pitula was nearing 40, DeMarco was green and untested and Velazquez, who quit in the corner against Valero somehow got a title shot against Valero even though he had 14 losses including losing his previous fight to a 15-1 fighter.
If you put Barrera or Morales in with these guys they would have probably stopped them too. It wouldn't get them on an all time puncher list if they did.

Sorry man but I won't be convinced Valero has met any opponents capable enough to test his worth as an all time puncher. I call it as I see it.
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#20
Old 10-06-2012, 06:37 AM
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great espn gallery!! , just finished wlad vs jackson.another great quality upload. - CAPT AMSTERDAM Some espn classic fights... awesome thread T!  I can't beleive I've never seen it - jose830 i couldn't green you , so here's a beer TBear!! - HUGH JASS GIF Thread: Distinguished Service Medal - Barnburner I be loving them gifs you post :fing02: - jose830 
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Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
I'm convinced about Valero's genuine power, but absolutely agree about standards for all time greatness. And based on achievements he doesn't cut it.
And again I agree.
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