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#21
Old 10-04-2012, 04:05 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
Sonny Liston:
Wins over Cleveland Williams (Top 10 HW), Roy Harris (Top 10 HW), Zora Folley (#1 HW), Eddie Machen (#3 HW), and Floyd Patterson (World HW Champ).

Mike Tyson:
Wins over Trevor Berbick (WBC HW Champ/Top 10 HW), James Smith (WBA HW Champ/#2 HW), Pinklon Thomas (#3 HW), Tony Tucker (IBF HW Champ/#3 HW), Tyrell Biggs (Top 10 HW), Michael Spinks (RING HW Champ), Carl Williams (#2 HW), Donovan Ruddock (#3 HW), Frank Bruno (WBC HW champ/Top 10 HW), and Bruce Seldon (WBA HW Champ/Top 10 HW).

Lennox Lewis:
Wins over Donovan Ruddock (Top 10 HW), Tony Tucker (Top 10 HW), Frank Bruno (Top 10 HW), Phil Jackson (Top 10 HW), Oliver McCall, Henry Akinwande (Top 10 HW), Andrew Golota (Top 10 HW), Shannon Briggs (Top 10 HW), Evander Holyfield (WBA/IBF HW Champ/#1 HW/#3 P4P), Michael Grant (#3 HW), David Tua (Top 10 HW), Hasim Rahman (WBC/IBF HW Champ/#1 HW), Mike Tyson (#2 HW), and Vitali Klitschko (Top 10 HW).

Vitali Klitschko:
Wins over Herbie Hide (WBO HW Champ), Kirk Johnson (Top 10 HW), Corrie Sanders (#3 HW), Samuel Peter (WBC HW Chamo/#2 HW), Juan Carlos Gomez (Top 10 HW), Chris Arreola (Top 10 HW), Kevin Johnson, Odlanier Solis, Tomasz Adamek (Top 10 HW), and Dereck Chisora.

Wladimir Klitschko:
Wins over Monte Barrett, Chris Byrd (WBO HW Champ/Top 10 HW, IBF HW Champ/#1 HW), Jameel McCline (Top 10 HW), Samuel Peter (Top 10 HW), Calvin Brock (Top 10 HW), Lamon Brewster (Top 10 HW), Sultan Ibragimov (WBO HW Champ/Top 10 HW), Tony Thompson (Top 10 HW), Ruslan Chagaev (#3 HW), Eddie Chambers (#3 HW), and David Haye (WBA HW Champ/#2 HW).
Lennox
Tyson
Liston
Wlad



100,000. Vitali
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#22
Old 10-04-2012, 04:31 PM
-Lowkey-
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
Please do.
Include the whole resumes. I think Lewis resume is better but only just. I see it much closer than most of people that's why I am interested to hear about this.
No particular order.

Briggs
Holyfield
V. Klitschko
Rahman
Ruddock
Mercer
Golota
Morrison
Bruno
McCall
Tua
Tucker
Tyson
Mavrovic
Botha


Sure some are past prime but there are some very solid wins on there that trump Wlads. not only did he fight better opposition he lost less and avenged his only 2 defeats with stoppage victorys something Wlad never managed to do. I really don't see how you can make a case for Wlads resume being particularly close.

Last edited by -Lowkey-; 10-04-2012 at 04:34 PM.
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#23
Old 10-04-2012, 05:10 PM
IronDanHamza
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1. Liston
2. Tyson
3. Lewis
4. Wlad
5. Vitali
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#24
Old 10-04-2012, 05:13 PM
Simurgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lowkey- View Post
No particular order.

Briggs
Holyfield
V. Klitschko
Rahman
Ruddock
Mercer
Golota
Morrison
Bruno
McCall
Tua
Tucker
Tyson
Mavrovic
Botha


Sure some are past prime but there are some very solid wins on there that trump Wlads. not only did he fight better opposition he lost less and avenged his only 2 defeats with stoppage victorys something Wlad never managed to do. I really don't see how you can make a case for Wlads resume being particularly close.
I'll give it a go. Of course I don't say I have to be right, but this is just how I see it.

Lewis lost 2 times and 1 draw, Wlad lost 3 times. Lewis has 41wins (32 KO, 72% KO), Wlad has 58 wins (51KO, 83% KO). So not going in details at the moment, looking just the numbers, at very worst (for Wlad) they are equal - but actually it looks better for Wlad (yes Lewis opposition is better).

I chose 10 notable Lennox's and Wlad's wins (arguably 10 best wins).

In squares there is the record of the opponent when they fought with the age of the fighter (this could be some indication how far from the prime opponent was - not too accurate). I gave a mark for every fight. I took into account the time when they fought, how fight ended and the quality of the opponent at that time.

Lennox :

Holyfiled (36-3-1, 37) - UD 8-4 --> 9
Golota (28-2 , 29) - KO2 --> 9
Bruno (36-3, 32) - TKO7 --> 7
Vitali (32-1 ,32) - TKO6 --> 7
Rahman (35-2, 29) - KO4 --> 7
Briggs (30-1 , 27) - TKO5 --> 7
Tua (37-1, 28) - UD 10-2 --> 8
Morrison (45-2-1, 26) - TKO6 --> 7
Tyson (49-3-2, 36) - KO8 --> 7
Rudock (27-3-1, 31) - TKO2 --> 7

Wlad :

Haye (25-1, 29) UD 7-3 --> 8
Byrd (39-2-1, 30 and 36) - UD and TKO7 --> 7
Peter (24 - 0, 25) UD --> 7
Brewster (30 -2 ,31) TKO6 --> 7
Ibragimov (22-0-1, 32) UD 10-2 --> 7
Botha (44-3-1, 33) TKO8 --> 7
Chambers (35 - 1, 28) KO12 --> 7
Thomson (31-1, 37) KO11 --> 7
Chagaev (25-0-1, 30) TKO9 --> 7
Brock (29-0,31) TKO7 --> 7

Lennox 75, Wlad 71

Wlad is still active. I think he has a decent chance to be on pair (or even pass) Lennox resume in 3-4 years time.

Last edited by Simurgh; 10-04-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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#25
Old 10-04-2012, 05:13 PM
IronDanHamza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom. View Post
We can see what you base your opinions on.

I noticed your list of favorite fighters all had something in common.

You need to learn to evaluate boxers more objectively.
From what I can see, he's broken down his view on Liston. And very well I might add.

Your statement that his only wins of note are his two wins against Floyd Patterson are absurd and frankly, out an out false.
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#26
Old 10-04-2012, 05:17 PM
IronDanHamza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
I'll give it a go. Of course I don't say I have to be right, but this is just how I see it.

Lewis lost 2 times and 1 draw, Wlad lost 3 times. Lewis has 41wins (32 KO, 72% KO), Wlad has 58 wins (51KO, 83% KO). So not going in details at the moment, looking just the numbers, at very worst (for Wlad) they are equal - but actually it looks better for Wlad (yes Lewis opposition is better).

I chose 10 notable Lennox's and Wlad's wins (arguably 10 best wins).

In squares there is the record of the opponent when they fought with the age of the fighter (this could be some indication how far from the prime opponent was - not too accurate). I gave a mark for every fight. I took into account the time when they fought, how fight ended and the quality of the opponent at that time.

Lennox :

Holyfiled (36-3-1, 37) - UD 8-4 --> 9
Golota (28-2 , 29) - KO2 --> 9
Bruno (36-3, 32) - TKO7 --> 7
Vitali (32-1 ,32) - TKO6 --> 7
Rahman (35-2, 29) - KO4 --> 7
Briggs (30-1 , 27) - TKO5 --> 7
Tua (37-1, 28) - UD 10-2 --> 8
Morrison (45-2-1, 26) - TKO6 --> 7
Tyson (49-3-2, 36) - KO8 --> 7
Rudock (27-3-1, 31) - TKO2 --> 7

Wlad :

Haye (25-1, 29) UD 7-3 --> 8
Byrd (39-2-1, 30 and 36) - UD and TKO7 --> 7
Peter (24 - 0, 25) UD --> 7
Brewster (30 -2 ,31) TKO6 --> 7
Ibragimov (22-0-1, 32) UD 10-2 --> 7
Botha (44-3-1, 33) TKO8 --> 7
Chambers (35 - 1, 28) KO12 --> 7
Thomson (31-1, 37) KO11 --> 7
Chagaev (25-0-1, 30) TKO9 --> 7
Brock (29-0,31) TKO7 --> 7

Lennox 75, Wlad 71

Wlad is still active. I think he has a decent chance to be on pair (or even pass) Lennox resume in 3-4 years time.
Intrested to see your reasoning on having Lewis win over Tyson and his win over Razor Ruddock as the same score.

Lewis win over Ruddock, where he was expected to lose by a long list of people, and ended up destroying him is a lot better than his win over Mike Tyson's corpse.
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#27
Old 10-04-2012, 05:23 PM
Simurgh
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Intrested to see your reasoning on having Lewis win over Tyson and his win over Razor Ruddock as the same score.

Lewis win over Ruddock, where he was expected to lose by a long list of people, and ended up destroying him is a lot better than his win over Mike Tyson's corpse.
I said I might be wrong in some aspects - but I am interested in the general picture. Although I don't give Lennox too much credit for beating that version of Tyson - people do see it as the one of the biggest Lennox's wins. Also I think Lennox himself regards that as one of the biggest.

I do agree win over Rudock is better one.
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#28
Old 10-04-2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
I said I might be wrong in some aspects - but I am interested in the general picture. Although I don't give Lennox too much credit for beating that version of Tyson - people do see it as the one of the biggest Lennox's wins. Also I think Lennox himself regards that as one of the biggest.

I do agree win over Rudock is better one.
No matter what you say, Wlad's only win over a world class fighter is Haye in my opinion, Byrd would have been at best a gatekeeper in the previous era, and I don't actually think Haye would have made the jump up, heavyweight in the 90's or other previous era's would have been too competitive for him to compete in, he has actually said this himself.

I think the following fighters are better heavyweights than Haye and Byrd when Lennox fought them.

Ruddock, Briggs, Bruno, Holyfield, Tyson, Tua, Golota, Mercer

You could arguably put another few names on that list.

What do you honestly think Lewis would have done with Haye? He would have completely demolished him, it would not have lasted 6 rounds. Wlad-Haye was semi competitive, and Haye won rounds, Wlad only landed a handful of meaningful punches.
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#29
Old 10-04-2012, 06:21 PM
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To the TS

Lewis
Liston
Tyson
Wlad
Vitali

Tyson and Wlad are quite close but Tyson's wins over Spinks and Bruno are better than Wlads over Haye and Byrd. Plus his wins over Ruddock are probably the best of the rest. Other than that it is pretty nip and tuck
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#30
Old 10-04-2012, 06:31 PM
damuttz112
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Originally Posted by Freedom. View Post
We can see what you base your opinions on.

I noticed your list of favorite fighters all had something in common.

You need to learn to evaluate boxers more objectively.
What HOF does Wlad have? Tyson has Holmes & Spinks. You're the one who should think more objectively instead of letting your bias for wlad cloud your judgement.
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