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#31
Old 10-04-2012, 09:33 AM
Ray Corso
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If your speaking to me I watched, very good!! Giving respect for what they've accomplished is one thing recognizing them or one as a "great fighter" is another! I'm not a "fan" or "hater" I'm a retired boxing manager, trainer, cornerman and gym owner so my thoughts come from actual experiences not watching fights and comparing fights and fighters. I know methods and techniques and most fans don't!! They only now how to compare records or common opponents, that doesn't cut it when evaluating talents!! Sorry! Ray.
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#32
Old 10-04-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Presidente View Post
What the Klitschko brothers have done has never been done before in any weight division in boxing. By the way, do yourself a favor and watch HBO's documentary "Klitschko"; mad respect!

Wladimir will be inducted into Canastota, NY and will be remembered as one of the most dominating heavyweights of his time. He will be a GOAT when all is said and done.
And what is that??2 brothers holding all the titles.....................well there has been 1 person to hold all the titles before and that is more impressive
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#33
Old 10-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Simurgh
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I have no doubt that Wlad won't lose any fights till he is 40 or older. Now it only depends how good the contenders (he will beat) will be after him . Etc if he beats Price in 2-3 years (Price prime or near prime) and then Price becomes a dominant champion Wlad will be regarded on pair with Lennox.

Lewis beat tyson, holyfiled, tua and vitali. I can't really give him a credit for beating tyson or vitali (for tyson it is obvious why and for vitali the way how he did it and looked doing it).

He dominated Tua (if he is regarded as HOF - not sure) and with Holyfiled he had at least one close fight.

Wlad did beat some very good fighters and wasn't beaten in his prime (Lewis was).
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#34
Old 10-04-2012, 10:21 AM
sunny31
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
I have no doubt that Wlad won't lose any fights till he is 40 or older. Now it only depends how good the contenders (he will beat) will be after him . Etc if he beats Price in 2-3 years (Price prime or near prime) and then Price becomes a dominant champion Wlad will be regarded on pair with Lennox.

Lewis beat tyson, holyfiled, tua and vitali. I can't really give him a credit for beating tyson or vitali (for tyson it is obvious why and for vitali the way how he did it and looked doing it).

He dominated Tua (if he is regarded as HOF - not sure) and with Holyfiled he had at least one close fight.

Wlad did beat some very good fighters and wasn't beaten in his prime (Lewis was).
Lewis avenged both those losses by brutal KO. Wlad didn't for whatever reason. Wlad has a very long way to go before he is considered with Lennox, for now you would do well to compare him to someone a bit lower in the echelon of great heavyweights. Wlads best wins are against Byrd and Haye, I think Lennox has at least 6-7 wins better than that. He has marquee wins. Wlad has none, he has only beaten SOME good fighters, and lost to some pretty average fighters, more average than the fighters Lewis lost to.

In fact if you assess Lewis' resume it is just better across the board, the division was more competitive then, there was a pretty decent gatekeeper level in the 90's, then you had very good fighters like Bruno who held titles, and then the top tier guys.

Plus - as someone has already mentioned if you just use your boxing brain (if you actually have one) and assess the fighters Lennox had more tools, they were similar to a certain extent but Lennox was far more versatile, stronger, better in that style. He was less stiff and didn't have to rely on holding to keep himself safe in the ring, he had a better chin too, better combinations, faster, more skill. I think the only thing Wlad does better is defence, and I would say it is to the detriment of his offence like he doesn't have right balance. Against a great fighter we would have found out how good that defence actually is. I don't want to be too negative on Wlad because he is great in how own right, but the comparisons with Lennox are silly and unfounded, Wlad doesn't stack up to Lennox in any way, not many if any heavyweights do.
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#35
Old 10-04-2012, 10:23 AM
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already on of the GOATS
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#36
Old 10-04-2012, 10:58 AM
sammiza567
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wlad gets knocked out by most other atg heavies. i rank his vitali higher.
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#37
Old 10-04-2012, 11:02 AM
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This can't be serious????
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#38
Old 10-04-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSB Know it all View Post
Who did Louis beat that was any better than Wlad's opponents? Don't just compare these guys names to each other. Actually go and watch these old Louis fights. People think these guys nowadays are bums just look at that era. Marcianos era is a joke too. Do you guys believe he would'nt be able to handle Patterson? the only guys that you can say would've beaten Wlad are Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Foreman, Ali, Bowe, Holmes and maybe Frazier. All these guys would have to be in there primes to be competetive. Don't get me wrong any heavyweight has a punchers chance.
I personally don't think Tyson would've done **** to this prime Wlad. Who did a young Tyson fight that was anything like this prime Wlad?

I think Homles would'nt have been a big enough puncher to keep Wlads jab off of him.

I don't think Bowe had the conditioning and determination to beat Wlad.

Lewis had a hell of a time with the slower and less skilled brother. Wlad might've just outboxed Lewis because it was Vitali's basic boxing and size that was bothering him.

Holyfield would've had to get inside to do anything at all but there's a good chance he would be able to get inside.

Ali never fought anyone as big and fast as Wlad that could also box. Wlad consistency of his style along with his attributes might've been hell for Ali if he tried to box.

If Wlad survives 5 rounds with Foreman without getting battered to **** than he wins a decision. There is a good chance Wlad also gets an early KO against Foreman. Foreman never fought someone bigger and with the same type of power as himself.

I honestly believe a prime Holyfield would've been a very bad fight for this Wlad but even so Wlad is still the better boxer. Just my opinion.

Frazier probably could've given Wlad problems but his size would probably limit him and would've probably gotten toyed with.
H2H you're right, but based on era/resume/career, Joe Louis' resume is 100 times better than either Klitschko.

Wlad and Vitali H2H, they lose to Ali/Foreman/Holmes/Holyfield/Lewis prime for prime. And fights with Liston, Tyson, and Bowe would be 50/50.
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#39
Old 10-04-2012, 11:38 AM
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I think that Jimmy guy has hijacked Dan_Cov's username

I think Wlad will get his respect in time, but i really dont think he's anywhere nearly as good as Lennox and would have been severely murdered by him

It's all debatable and because it cant and wont happen, it will never be proven, but, we all have opinions and thats just mine. Wlad is good, but no where nearly the best heavy weight i've seen, let alone all time
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#40
Old 10-04-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dan_cov View Post
Chris Byrd is a future hall of famer, I think that is about the only one. Though its a bit hard for anybody to get in when there is two brothers who have dominated the division entirely for a decade. They have stopped fighters from becoming hall of famers with their dominance.
Its unfortunate for the Klits the HW division is terrible these days. You only have to look at their opposition to see that. If any of their challengers were potential hall of famers, they would keep coming back, because they would be much better than the rest of the HW's.
But we dont see that. Its a case of the best of the worst.

To be considered a true great, you need opposition that shows how good you are. And the Klits havent had any. No great wins.
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