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#11
Old 09-29-2012, 10:35 AM
House of Stone
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Originally Posted by SPREAD View Post
Ward for a start, Mayweather, Froch, Golovkin after a few decent wins, theres no one at middleweight that can make him an ATG.

That list i made above is pretty unrealistic.

Martinez is never gunna be an ATG.
if he did this then he would be but he might not even get one of those fights let alone all of them ... additionally ward destroys him , froch too probably
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#12
Old 09-29-2012, 10:59 AM
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just defeating mayweather will do it imo since that would instantly propel him to number 1 p4p, and floyd is quite dominant at the moment not really showing notable signs of being washed up
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#13
Old 09-29-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dan_cov View Post
He has maybe upto 2-3 years left, hes got time yet IMO
6 time world champion in 2 divisions?!


It also depends how opposition hes beaten bounces back. I mean if Macklin keeps chipping away, Barker comes back strong it will help and increase the quality of those wins.
Whaaaaaat? You mean now? He's a 2 time world champ in one division (not even really a 2 time champ since it was just corruption that stripped him of his only title that he had to fight to 'win' back despite never losing it).

He never actually got the chance to win a major title at 154. He won the WBC interim title at 154.

I actually can't believe some people are honestly saying he could surpass Hopkins. No way.

He's beaten a few paper champions and one real champ in his whole career and has only made 5 defenses against a bunch of semi decent contenders.

He's good for today and over the last couple of years, don't get me wrong, but ATG, HOFer, Argentinian legend only behind Monzon?

Pascual Perez is way above Martinez. Victor Galindez is way above him too. Coggi is way above as is Santos Laciar. All greater champions with much greater resumes!

Even Castro is only just below, purely because of skill level, and I would argue even in terms of resume. Before anyone says "Castro sucked balls", just remember the MW era he had to fight in compared to this one. He still beat champs like John David Jackson x2, and Reggie Johnsonx2 plus many contenders easily as good and better than guys like Macklin/Barker etc.

Let's just chill out. As much as I would have loved to see him enter the HOF or become an ATG, it is simply not remotely possible.
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#14
Old 09-29-2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
Whaaaaaat? You mean now? He's a 2 time world champ in one division (not even really a 2 time champ since it was just corruption that stripped him of his only title that he had to fight to 'win' back despite never losing it).

He never actually got the chance to win a major title at 154. He won the WBC interim title at 154.

I actually can't believe some people are honestly saying he could surpass Hopkins. No way.

He's beaten a few paper champions and one real champ in his whole career and has only made 5 defenses against a bunch of semi decent contenders.

He's good for today and over the last couple of years, don't get me wrong, but ATG, HOFer, Argentinian legend only behind Monzon?

Pascual Perez is way above Martinez. Victor Galindez is way above him too. Coggi is way above as is Santos Laciar. All greater champions with much greater resumes!

Even Castro is only just below, purely because of skill level, and I would argue even in terms of resume. Before anyone says "Castro sucked balls", just remember the MW era he had to fight in compared to this one. He still beat champs like John David Jackson x2, and Reggie Johnsonx2 plus many contenders easily as good and better than guys like Macklin/Barker etc.

Let's just chill out. As much as I would have loved to see him enter the HOF or become an ATG, it is simply not remotely possible.

Just to be clear, are you saying that Martinez has no chance to be in the HOF, or just to be an ATG? The HOF already has quite a few with weaker resumes in it.
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#15
Old 09-29-2012, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
Whaaaaaat? You mean now? He's a 2 time world champ in one division (not even really a 2 time champ since it was just corruption that stripped him of his only title that he had to fight to 'win' back despite never losing it).

He never actually got the chance to win a major title at 154. He won the WBC interim title at 154.

I actually can't believe some people are honestly saying he could surpass Hopkins. No way.

He's beaten a few paper champions and one real champ in his whole career and has only made 5 defenses against a bunch of semi decent contenders.

He's good for today and over the last couple of years, don't get me wrong, but ATG, HOFer, Argentinian legend only behind Monzon?

Pascual Perez is way above Martinez. Victor Galindez is way above him too. Coggi is way above as is Santos Laciar. All greater champions with much greater resumes!

Even Castro is only just below, purely because of skill level, and I would argue even in terms of resume. Before anyone says "Castro sucked balls", just remember the MW era he had to fight in compared to this one. He still beat champs like John David Jackson x2, and Reggie Johnsonx2 plus many contenders easily as good and better than guys like Macklin/Barker etc.

Let's just chill out. As much as I would have loved to see him enter the HOF or become an ATG, it is simply not remotely possible.
Some people.
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#16
Old 09-29-2012, 11:41 PM
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more info .


Martinez was champion welter IBO superwelter interim and regular on CMB two times midleweight champion CMB and OMB midelweight
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#17
Old 09-30-2012, 02:35 AM
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Hes likely already HoF bound, and ATG status is reachable but will be very difficult without way more fights at Middleweight or a win over Mayweather at 154.

Last edited by Brockton Lip; 09-30-2012 at 02:39 AM.
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#18
Old 09-30-2012, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
Whaaaaaat? You mean now? He's a 2 time world champ in one division (not even really a 2 time champ since it was just corruption that stripped him of his only title that he had to fight to 'win' back despite never losing it).

He never actually got the chance to win a major title at 154. He won the WBC interim title at 154.
the WBC made him the "full" WBC light middleweight champion afterwards.
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#19
Old 09-30-2012, 02:56 AM
BennyST
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Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
Just to be clear, are you saying that Martinez has no chance to be in the HOF, or just to be an ATG? The HOF already has quite a few with weaker resumes in it.
Well, sadly you're right and I think it's a disgrace they're in. Some of the 'Old Timers' choices are terrible. I don't think he should get in the HOF though. Maybe with a couple more great wins, like Cotto and Mayweather, he could but it just doesn't stack up as stands.

The only thing someone like McGuigan ever did was beat LaPorte and end the reign of Eusebio Pedroza. Pedroza was an ATG featherweight and HOFer however, but it's a disgrace nonetheless.

Whatever category you choose for Martinez, he falls short in though. Reign? A short, single reign of 5 defenses so far. Good, but nothing resembling HOF or ATG material. Champions beaten? Pavlik, Williams, Dzinziruk and Chavez (if we can call him a champ). Skill? Solid but not spectacular. Time at top? A brief but excellent stint in the last couple of years.

Compare that to someone like Tzsyu, who is a 140 ATG and the most recent HOFer but a lower tier HOFer: 15 champions beaten, P4P top ten for a decade, first lineal and undisputed champ in 40 years at 140, 14 or so defenses all up over two reigns across 10 years. That's a guy that is a lower tier HOFer.

I just can't possibly see how beating Williams, Pavlik, and Dzinziruk along with a few contenders can get you anywhere near the HOF. It just shouldn't happen. That's the problem with the media hype machine today. A win over Chavez takes you from 'excellent fighter and current MW champ' to 'ATG, HOFer, second greatest Argentine champ ever'?

Does Martinez rank in the top twenty greatest MW's in history? Top twenty 154 guys? He's one of my favourite current fighters to watch but the obsession with the HOF in general has been really bugging me lately. Every win by anyone these days seems to prompt questions of HOF and ATG status.

Does Maidana deserve to get into the HOF after beating Karass?


Is Lucas Matthyse already a HOFer?


Does Amir Khan get into the HOF if he gets revenge on Garcia?


It's like every good winning streak for a popular fighter gets you into the HOF now. I remember people discussing Pavlik as a HOFer. He's beaten Taylor x2 and that's about it. In hindsight, one of the weakest lineal MW champs in history.
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#20
Old 09-30-2012, 03:02 AM
BennyST
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Originally Posted by Cuauhtli. View Post
the WBC made him the "full" WBC light middleweight champion afterwards.
Hmmm, I see. What for? The BS draw/double win with Cintron?

Man, well, I must be missing something these days. Nearly everyone seems to think he's already HOF bound.

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