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#1
Old 09-09-2012, 01:20 PM
Gino Ros
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Default John Scully ... As A Trainer



IceMan John Scully gave Chad Dawson the exact right instructions around the 9th (?) round: "you won't win a decision. Lay it all on the line and try to hurt this guy. We came here to Win".

That was perfect instruction at the time.

But BEFORE that, I thought Iceman Scully did an absolutely horrific job of giving Chad tactical and schematic direction to adjust to what SOG was doing.

Did Scully ever discuss or adjust to the left hook? Did he get Chad back outside to use his length? Did he urge Chad to go back to the jab?
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#2
Old 09-09-2012, 01:29 PM
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You can't really blame him. There aren't really any instructions that you can give in that situation other than to try and calm dawson down and get him to fight with passion.

What are you gonna tell him? I guarantee you that their game plan revolved around establishing the jab and using their height to keep ward on the outside.

They knew they would not be able to match ward on the inside, so when he wasn't able to establish his jab, it was game over for dawson.

Dawson was getting caught with the punches that hurt him because his punches were coming too wide, and Ward was able to come in short inside of them and beat him to it.

There is nothing he can do about that, no instructions to give to fix that. That is something they would have needed to fix in the gym.

At the end of the day Ward was just too smart for Dawson, he was able to out think him. Just watching the way Ward was feinting Dawson and setting traps and using his distance was a beautiful thing.
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#3
Old 09-09-2012, 01:36 PM
Gino Ros
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Originally Posted by !! Shawn View Post
What are you gonna tell him? I guarantee you that their game plan revolved around establishing the jab and using their height to keep ward on the outside.
Throw more combos: (Chad would just throw the jab out and just wait for the return fire.)

Throw some lead left hands to upset Ward's timing.

Try to circle the other way to move away from the hook.

When you get inside, tie him up. Don't let him work.


I wanted to hear ANYTHING tactical.
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#4
Old 09-09-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gino Ros View Post
Throw more combos: (Chad would just throw the jab out and just wait for the return fire.)

Throw some lead left hands to upset Ward's timing.

Try to circle the other way to move away from the hook.

When you get inside, tie him up. Don't let him work.


I wanted to hear ANYTHING tactical.
You don't tell your guy to throw more combos when he just got dropped in an exchange.

That adds a huge wrinkle to what kinds of instructions you have to give to your fighter.

We saw what happens when Dawson tried to tie up ward. Ward would get a hand free and strafe Dawson with hard uppercuts.

Last edited by !! Shawn; 09-09-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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#5
Old 09-09-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by !! Shawn View Post
You can't really blame him. There aren't really any instructions that you can give in that situation other than to try and calm dawson down and get him to fight with passion.
scully knew dawson was discouraged and about to quit, that's why he had to be a cheerleader instead of a coach at that moment... but I think he should've given Chad some kind of tactic to avoid Ward's left hand...

Quote:
What are you gonna tell him? I guarantee you that their game plan revolved around establishing the jab and using their height to keep ward on the outside.
it looked like at the beginning, their plan was to take the initiative and be first... that plan went to shiiiit the moment dawson got knocked down


Quote:
They knew they would not be able to match ward on the inside, so when he wasn't able to establish his jab, it was game over for dawson.
nah... I think team dawson underestimated ward... I think they thought they could fight in the trenches with ward... dawson actually was doing okay in the trenches at first cause he was able to muscle ward around... but his strength faded from all the punches he was taking to the body and to the head... and it probably didn't help that he was fighting at 168 lbs.

Quote:
Dawson was getting caught with the punches that hurt him because his punches were coming too wide, and Ward was able to come in short inside of them and beat him to it.
nah... dawson was getting hit cause ward set him up... ward was hurting him to the body with right hands... when chad dropped his guard to protect his body, ward went up top and knocked him down with the left hook... when chad got tentative, he stopped jabbing and ward took over

Quote:
There is nothing he can do about that, no instructions to give to fix that. That is something they would have needed to fix in the gym.
scully should've told dawson to fight with a high guard to try to block ward's jab and hook... I know that's not how dawson is used to fighting, but it was a necessary adjustment that needed to happen..

Quote:
At the end of the day Ward was just too smart for Dawson, he was able to out think him. Just watching the way Ward was feinting Dawson and setting traps and using his distance was a beautiful thing.
dawson looked like a deer in headlights...
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#6
Old 09-09-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gino Ros View Post


IceMan John Scully gave Chad Dawson the exact right instructions around the 9th (?) round: "you won't win a decision. Lay it all on the line and try to hurt this guy. We came here to Win".

That was perfect instruction at the time.

But BEFORE that, I thought Iceman Scully did an absolutely horrific job of giving Chad tactical and schematic direction to adjust to what SOG was doing.

Did Scully ever discuss or adjust to the left hook? Did he get Chad back outside to use his length? Did he urge Chad to go back to the jab?
Hard to say we didn't hear every minute of his instructions.
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#7
Old 09-09-2012, 01:44 PM
!! Shawn
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Originally Posted by Pullcounter View Post
scully knew dawson was discouraged and about to quit, that's why he had to be a cheerleader instead of a coach at that moment... but I think he should've given Chad some kind of tactic to avoid Ward's left hand...


it looked like at the beginning, their plan was to take the initiative and be first... that plan went to shiiiit the moment dawson got knocked down



nah... I think team dawson underestimated ward... I think they thought they could fight in the trenches with ward... dawson actually was doing okay in the trenches at first cause he was able to muscle ward around... but his strength faded from all the punches he was taking to the body and to the head... and it probably didn't help that he was fighting at 168 lbs.


nah... dawson was getting hit cause ward set him up... ward was hurting him to the body with right hands... when chad dropped his guard to protect his body, ward went up top and knocked him down with the left hook... when chad got tentative, he stopped jabbing and ward took over


scully should've told dawson to fight with a high guard to try to block ward's jab and hook... I know that's not how dawson is used to fighting, but it was a necessary adjustment that needed to happen..


dawson looked like a deer in headlights...
Ward was setting Dawson up by drawing shots from him with feints and then bringing it inside and short.

Also, I'm gonna give Scully more credit that underestimating Ward. They knew what Ward brought to the table. If they didn't that was a huge mistake on their part.
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#8
Old 09-09-2012, 01:46 PM
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I wanted to hear ANYTHING tactical.
yeah... i know what you mean
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#9
Old 09-09-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by !! Shawn View Post
Ward was setting Dawson up by drawing shots from him with feints and then bringing it inside and short.
go back and watch how ward's right hands to chad's mid section got him to lower his guard... that's how the knock down happened.... after that chad lost all confidence and it was over

Quote:
Also, I'm gonna give Scully more credit that underestimating Ward. They knew what Ward brought to the table. If they didn't that was a huge mistake on their part.
of course they underestimated ward.. why do you think dawson lost so badly? they went down to ward's weight, fought in his hometown... they thought they were so much better than ward in every way... it was a huge mistake and it cost them big time... I only gave dawson 1 round... he got focked in the @ss like a prostitute... it was brutal
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#10
Old 09-09-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pullcounter View Post
go back and watch how ward's right hands to chad's mid section got him to lower his guard... that's how the knock down happened.... after that chad lost all confidence and it was over


of course they underestimated ward.. why do you think dawson lost so badly? they went down to ward's weight, fought in his hometown... they thought they were so much better than ward in every way... it was a huge mistake and it cost them big time... I only gave dawson 1 round... he got focked in the @ss like a prostitute... it was brutal
Dawson was throwing a right hook, and Ward came in with a shorter straighter left. Obviously Ward was throwing right to the body and coming upstairs with a left hook all throughout the fight, but to ignore the contribution of Wards feints is taking away from ward.

Maybe thats the mistake that Dawsons camp made, underestimating that skill with which Ward can manipulate an opponent with feints.

Go back and watch the first round. It is a master class in feints of the head hands and feet.

That round set the pace for the fight. Ward used the round to test out all of his feints and see what Chad was falling for, and what he wasn't. Watch which ones he was falling for, and then watch the rest of the fight, and see how Ward was really setting things up.

I didn't give Dawson a single round.
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