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#1
Old 09-06-2012, 09:15 AM
res
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Default Did the Buster Douglas Fight save Tyson's reputation

Tyson had lost Jacobs, fired Rooney (the last relic of the D'amato camp) and was going down hill as far as both style and discipline were concerned. According to the rankings, Tyson should have been in there with Holyfield on February 11 1990 , but Tyson opted for a match with a much lower ranked second tier Journeymen. He was scheduled to face Holyfeld next. But what if he hadn't taken that fight and he HAD been in there with Holyfield that night? If it had been a fighter that would go on to become one of the greats of all time i.e. Holyfield, that had beaten Mike it would have been far more difficult if not impossible to sell the "self destruct" narrative of how Mike Tyson's career turned out. The Conclusion would have simply been that Mike wasn't as good as everyone thought he was and when he was put to a real test he came up short. If another shot at the title alluded him before he ended up in jail like it did in the real life scenario, that would have sealed it. Tyson's reputation might have resembled a guy like Sam Peter's, a scary hard hitting guy that it turned out just didn't have the goods in the end. To this day however, the belief remains among many (particularly the casual Boxing fan) that had Tyson kept it together he would have been all but invincible, and this is due primarily to the caliber of the fighter that eventually took him out: Buster Dougals

So in an ironic way, did the Buster Douglas actually save Mike Tyson's reputation?

Last edited by res; 09-06-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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#2
Old 09-06-2012, 10:25 AM
Sugarj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by res View Post
Tyson had lost Jacobs, fired Rooney (the last relic of the D'amato camp) and was going down hill as far as both style and discipline were concerned. According to the rankings, Tyson should have been in there with Holyfield on February 11 1990 , but Tyson opted for a match with a much lower ranked second tier Journeymen. He was scheduled to face Holyfeld next. But what if he hadn't taken that fight and he HAD been in there with Holyfield that night? If it had been a fighter that would go on to become one of the greats of all time i.e. Holyfield, that had beaten Mike it would have been far more difficult if not impossible to sell the "self destruct" narrative of how Mike Tyson's career turned out. The Conclusion would have simply been that Mike wasn't as good as everyone thought he was and when he was put to a real test he came up short. If another shot at the title alluded him before he ended up in jail like it did in the real life scenario, that would have sealed it. Tyson's reputation might have resembled a guy like Sam Peter's, a scary hard hitting guy that it turned out just didn't have the goods in the end. To this day however, the belief remains among many (particularly the casual Boxing fan) that had Tyson kept it together he would have been all but invincible, and this is due primarily to the caliber of the fighter that eventually took him out: Buster Dougals

So in an ironic way, did the Buster Douglas actually save Mike Tyson's reputation?
Its certainly an angle that some Tyson fans might cling on to.

To be honest though, had Tyson been meeting Holyfield that night he would have turned up with a better preparation, even with an inferior team. He clearly was better prepared for his matches following Buster without Rooney etc....even though his technique wasn't quite what it once was. The Tilman fight was a fiasco but the Stewart and Ruddock fights were decent performances against respected heavyweights at the time. He was far sharper for these than for Douglas.

He was clearly unmotivated at meeting Buster. I suppose 44:1 odds can build a fighter's confidence no end! I gather he was being treated for venereal disease, he'd been dropped by Greg Page in sparring......and he didn't even seem sharp or fired up in the first couple of rounds (which wasn't the Tyson we all knew). If Holyfield had turned up that night too, he'd have battered Tyson. But I can't see Tyson training for Holyfield in the same lackluster manner, he'd have known that Holyfield was a threat.

If he'd been in with Holyfield that night, he'd have been better. I'm not saying he'd have won......but he'd have been at least as good as he was against Ruddock, which 'might' have been enough to beat 1990 Holyfield.
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#3
Old 09-06-2012, 03:25 PM
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Mike would've definitely trained if he fought Holyfield and would've stayed focused.

Holyfield couldn't live with Tysons power during that time before roiding himself up and taking HGH like he did in the mid 90s.
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#4
Old 09-06-2012, 03:45 PM
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I think the Douglas fight created a reputation for Tyson that people still feel is true-

If you're not afraid and let your abilties go to work, Mike Tyson is totally beatable.
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#5
Old 09-06-2012, 03:54 PM
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First off I assure anyone that Tyson didn't look at Buster as 44 to 1 odds, thats for sure! If anyone was thought of as "unmototvated" it would be Buster!! The only people who think Tyson is "above" a good fighter status are the " fanatics" they can't see his defeats or his talent regression they have a million excusses for him!! He doesn't have excusses anymore so why should his fans. His defeats are NO DOUBTERS, the other guys were better that night and as he matured from novice pro to veteran he didn't fare well once everyone caught up to the "back the bully up" boxing reality!!! Will he be prepared for pressure??? Will he remember how to counter it??? Yes/No? Ray.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:15 PM
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He probably would have given a better accounting of himself, but still would not have been adequately prepared for Holyfield. No way he wins that one at that time.
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#7
Old 09-06-2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
First off I assure anyone that Tyson didn't look at Buster as 44 to 1 odds, thats for sure! If anyone was thought of as "unmototvated" it would be Buster!! The only people who think Tyson is "above" a good fighter status are the " fanatics" they can't see his defeats or his talent regression they have a million excusses for him!! He doesn't have excusses anymore so why should his fans. His defeats are NO DOUBTERS, the other guys were better that night and as he matured from novice pro to veteran he didn't fare well once everyone caught up to the "back the bully up" boxing reality!!! Will he be prepared for pressure??? Will he remember how to counter it??? Yes/No? Ray.

I agree.

A motivated Douglas beats a motivated Tyson 10 out of 10 times.

The most pathetic of the excuses for Tyson by his fans is the one of Holyfield being dirty in the ring or a roider. If Tyson was as great as they all think, a few headbutts from a blown-up crusierweight shouldn't have resulted in him getting his ass torn up the first time or having him have a BREAKDOWN in the second fight.
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#8
Old 09-06-2012, 04:49 PM
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Around this time Holyfield wasn't all that consistent either. a year before that he was having major trouble with Alex Stewart(since we're comparing common opponents, this is the same guy that was destroyed in seconds by Tyson who tied one hand behind his back) and even after he won the title he was getting dropped by Cooper and went to war with him.

The version of Holy that Tyson eventually did fight was IMO much better to face Tyson than the one in the early 90s. For one he was much bigger and extremely strong in the clinch(he hung in there with Lennox and Foreman in the clinches) which would have been needed to neutralize Tyson's offense. And also, he was far too prone to get into slugfests early on. I mean look at almost any of his fights before he had his health problems, Holy went to war with dangerous guys far too often which he never did later on.

That would have eventually killed him against pre-prison Tyson. Even without Rooney he had a lot of heart and desire, and his youth. Probably most importantly his ability to keep going when his opponents hurt him(see Douglass and Ruddock fights).
In 1990 Holy gets too aggressive and isn't strong and big enough, so he loses. The one that fought Tyson in 96/97 beats almost any version of Tyson. 86/87 Tyson would be a 50/50 fight.
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#9
Old 09-06-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaman View Post
Around this time Holyfield wasn't all that consistent either. a year before that he was having major trouble with Alex Stewart(since we're comparing common opponents, this is the same guy that was destroyed in seconds by Tyson who tied one hand behind his back) and even after he won the title he was getting dropped by Cooper and went to war with him.

The version of Holy that Tyson eventually did fight was IMO much better to face Tyson than the one in the early 90s. For one he was much bigger and extremely strong in the clinch(he hung in there with Lennox and Foreman in the clinches) which would have been needed to neutralize Tyson's offense. And also, he was far too prone to get into slugfests early on. I mean look at almost any of his fights before he had his health problems, Holy went to war with dangerous guys far too often which he never did later on.

That would have eventually killed him against pre-prison Tyson. Even without Rooney he had a lot of heart and desire, and his youth. Probably most importantly his ability to keep going when his opponents hurt him(see Douglass and Ruddock fights).
In 1990 Holy gets too aggressive and isn't strong and big enough, so he loses. The one that fought Tyson in 96/97 beats almost any version of Tyson. 86/87 Tyson would be a 50/50 fight.

There is wisdom here. The 1996 Holyfield may well have been the perfect antidote to Tyson tactically and physically. The 1990 Holyfield; whilst faster & fresher may simply have been too rash and vulnerable at that time for Tyson.
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#10
Old 09-06-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
First off I assure anyone that Tyson didn't look at Buster as 44 to 1 odds, thats for sure! If anyone was thought of as "unmototvated" it would be Buster!! The only people who think Tyson is "above" a good fighter status are the " fanatics" they can't see his defeats or his talent regression they have a million excusses for him!! He doesn't have excusses anymore so why should his fans. His defeats are NO DOUBTERS, the other guys were better that night and as he matured from novice pro to veteran he didn't fare well once everyone caught up to the "back the bully up" boxing reality!!! Will he be prepared for pressure??? Will he remember how to counter it??? Yes/No? Ray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
I agree.

A motivated Douglas beats a motivated Tyson 10 out of 10 times.

The most pathetic of the excuses for Tyson by his fans is the one of Holyfield being dirty in the ring or a roider. If Tyson was as great as they all think, a few headbutts from a blown-up crusierweight shouldn't have resulted in him getting his ass torn up the first time or having him have a BREAKDOWN in the second fight.
Obscene stupidity here
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