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#1
Old 12-17-2005, 04:04 PM
butterfly1964
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Lightbulb Could ali have went undefeated despite the layoff?

i've been thinking about it, and i think all of ali's losses were either because he didn't train properly, or because of something else that messed him up.

1971 - joe frazier/ if ali had fought more than just two fights after the layoff before taking on frazier, he would have been more prepared in fighting frazier. plus he weighed more in the frazier fight than any other fight he ever was in prior (215) the quarry fight he weighed 213 1/2 and the bonavena fight he weighed 212. so he could have been in better shape. besides, frazier never beat him after that, so that had to have been the reason for ali's first pro loss.

1973 - ken norton/ ali certainly did not take the former marine seriously. nobody did! ali weighed 221 for that fight. he was suprised and caught off guard. however in the rematch, he weighed 212 and he won. and the third he beat him too. so that loss was due to a lack of training.

1978 - leon spinks/ again, lack of training. he didn't expect leon to suprise him like he did. however, he trained hard and embarrassed him in the rematch.

1980 - larry holmes/ this time ali was on every pill that was ever made, and it affected his nervous system, so he couldn't even react in the fight. however, if ali waited and trained the right way instead of losing alot of weight quickly with drugs, he would have had a chance. heck, he already shocked the world twice by beating liston and foreman, who's to say he couldn't with holmes?

1981 - trevor berbick/ he weighed 234 1/2lbs. enough said! he never weighed that much, and he could have weighed less if he trained well. it was a split decision, and ali was making it a close fight. proper training would have won him that fight.

just something to think about IMO when you try to downgrade the greatest and say, "well, if he is so great, then how come he lost to this guy?" and so on, and so on hehe.

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#2
Old 12-17-2005, 04:25 PM
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#3
Old 12-17-2005, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly1964
i've been thinking about it, and i think all of ali's losses were either because he didn't train properly, or because of something else that messed him up.

1971 - joe frazier/ if ali had fought more than just two fights after the layoff before taking on frazier, he would have been more prepared in fighting frazier. plus he weighed more in the frazier fight than any other fight he ever was in prior (215) the quarry fight he weighed 213 1/2 and the bonavena fight he weighed 212. so he could have been in better shape. besides, frazier never beat him after that, so that had to have been the reason for ali's first pro loss.

1973 - ken norton/ ali certainly did not take the former marine seriously. nobody did! ali weighed 221 for that fight. he was suprised and caught off guard. however in the rematch, he weighed 212 and he won. and the third he beat him too. so that loss was due to a lack of training.

1978 - leon spinks/ again, lack of training. he didn't expect leon to suprise him like he did. however, he trained hard and embarrassed him in the rematch.

1980 - larry holmes/ this time ali was on every pill that was ever made, and it affected his nervous system, so he couldn't even react in the fight. however, if ali waited and trained the right way instead of losing alot of weight quickly with drugs, he would have had a chance. heck, he already shocked the world twice by beating liston and foreman, who's to say he couldn't with holmes?

1981 - trevor berbick/ he weighed 234 1/2lbs. enough said! he never weighed that much, and he could have weighed less if he trained well. it was a split decision, and ali was making it a close fight. proper training would have won him that fight.

just something to think about IMO when you try to downgrade the greatest and say, "well, if he is so great, then how come he lost to this guy?" and so on, and so on hehe.

you can say same about tysons losses, you can make excusess for everyone in history if you wants to.
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#4
Old 12-17-2005, 06:56 PM
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I think Ali could have gone undefeated if there was NO layoff. He would have fought Frazier in about 69, and beaten him comfortably. He would have beaten all contenders earlier - Norton would be the only problem - and beat Foreman in 73 and then retire.

But with the layoff - no he couldn't go undefeated. He lost fair and square.
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#5
Old 12-17-2005, 08:59 PM
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There's no way Ali could have beat Holmes at the time. You know that, I know that. As for the Frazier fight, that's questionable. I feel he was robbed in the Spinks fight anyway, so he definetly could have beaten Spinks, he could have definetly beaten Norton had he actually realized how good Norton was, and he could have maybe prevented his loss from Berbick.
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#6
Old 12-17-2005, 10:30 PM
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This is all speculation. Ali would of never remained undefeated with the competition He faced. Not in a million years.
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#7
Old 12-17-2005, 10:31 PM
butterfly1964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellfire508
I think Ali could have gone undefeated if there was NO layoff. He would have fought Frazier in about 69, and beaten him comfortably. He would have beaten all contenders earlier - Norton would be the only problem - and beat Foreman in 73 and then retire.

But with the layoff - no he couldn't go undefeated. He lost fair and square.
well, yeah, definetely if there was no layoff, he would go undefeated, i knew that for quite some time. however, maybe a few days ago i've been thinking about it, and if he was dedicated to training like when he was an amateur, he would have prevented those losses, despite the layoff.
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#8
Old 12-18-2005, 02:57 AM
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do you only post things about ali or topics related to him? i mean there is a lot more to boxing than ali.
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#9
Old 12-18-2005, 04:24 AM
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I Think He Could Have
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#10
Old 12-18-2005, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfly1964
well, yeah, definetely if there was no layoff, he would go undefeated, i knew that for quite some time. however, maybe a few days ago i've been thinking about it, and if he was dedicated to training like when he was an amateur, he would have prevented those losses, despite the layoff.
maybe not even if there was no layoff, because prime frazier and foreman could beat ali.
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