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#21
Old 09-02-2012, 06:47 PM
dan_cov
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Originally Posted by King- View Post
Funny you mention that, because besides Andy Lee..........Peter Manfredo is just about the best fighter Chavez Jr beat, and according to most people, JCC Jr is the P4P King.

'Should Golovkin not wait for a live threat before saying he beats Dawson, Ward, Sergio".........well.....JCC Jr came off an Andy Lee win, who is about the same class as Proska, oh and he also had one loss which he avenged...... yet he's ready and earned a fight with Sergio. But not Golovkin?


Oh, the irony........


Nobody at all thinks Chavez Jr is P4P king or even close....
I'd also say Lee was bigger & better than Proksa and Chavez Jr also holds wins over Rubio & a shoddy win over Zbik & a few other decent Euro level guys.

Many indeed think Sergio Martinez hasn't a great resume himself. Full credit to Chavez Jr for taking this fight because frankly I felt he was running scared of Sergio. Do I think he wins? No. I think Sergio stops him.

Regarding Lees loss to Vera, I think there is a difference between being a prospect, gassing & losing too a tough Vera (who is more than capable of pulling a good upset) than to being nearly a 30 fight seasoned pro and losing to a fighter of Kerry Hopes calibre & not exactly looking great in the rematch.

I'd like to see Golovkin fight Quillin/N'Jikam winner, Macklin/Alcine winner or somebody at least before he calls out Ward, Dawson, Sergio & the likes & people are picking him to win by K.O & such. Hes impressive but how will he look against a solid top 10 at least?
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#22
Old 09-02-2012, 06:55 PM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by dan_cov View Post
Nobody at all thinks Chavez Jr is P4P king or even close....
I'd also say Lee was bigger & better than Proksa and Chavez Jr also holds wins over Rubio & a shoddy win over Zbik & a few other decent Euro level guys.

Many indeed think Sergio Martinez hasn't a great resume himself. Full credit to Chavez Jr for taking this fight because frankly I felt he was running scared of Sergio. Do I think he wins? No. I think Sergio stops him.

Regarding Lees loss to Vera, I think there is a difference between being a prospect, gassing & losing too a tough Vera (who is more than capable of pulling a good upset) than to being nearly a 30 fight seasoned pro and losing to a fighter of Kerry Hopes calibre & not exactly looking great in the rematch.

I'd like to see Golovkin fight Quillin/N'Jikam winner, Macklin/Alcine winner or somebody at least before he calls out Ward, Dawson, Sergio & the likes & people are picking him to win by K.O & such. Hes impressive but how will he look against a solid top 10 at least?
I'd like to see Golovkin fight Macklin.

That would gauge how good he is, IMO.

Geale, Quillen, hell, maybe even Sturm despite coming off a loss.

Sturm would be a massive step up.
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#23
Old 09-02-2012, 07:03 PM
King_
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Originally Posted by dan_cov View Post
Nobody at all thinks Chavez Jr is P4P king or even close....
I'd also say Lee was bigger & better than Proksa and Chavez Jr also holds wins over Rubio & a shoddy win over Zbik & a few other decent Euro level guys.

Many indeed think Sergio Martinez hasn't a great resume himself. Full credit to Chavez Jr for taking this fight because frankly I felt he was running scared of Sergio. Do I think he wins? No. I think Sergio stops him.

Regarding Lees loss to Vera, I think there is a difference between being a prospect, gassing & losing too a tough Vera (who is more than capable of pulling a good upset) than to being nearly a 30 fight seasoned pro and losing to a fighter of Kerry Hopes calibre & not exactly looking great in the rematch.

I'd like to see Golovkin fight Quillin/N'Jikam winner, Macklin/Alcine winner or somebody at least before he calls out Ward, Dawson, Sergio & the likes & people are picking him to win by K.O & such. Hes impressive but how will he look against a solid top 10 at least?
Maybe not P4P king, but he gets hyped up a lot. Not even necessarily on this forum, but IRL as well. Lee is bigger then Proksa, but I do not believe he is a far superior fighter. Certainly not by a huge margin. Vera is more then capable of pulling an upset, but lets not be mistaken here, he lost to all of the top guys he's faced. Just like Kerry Hope, he's not exactly world-class. (not comparing the two)

Regarding Proksa's loss to Hope, I did not get a chance to watch that fight, but from what I understand, Proksa's eye was swollen in round 3 and he fought 9 rounds with bad vision? Correct me if I'm wrong. And you say he didn't look great in the rematch, but he got the job done. He knocked him out.....where as Lee went the full 12 with Vera. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but at least Proksa avenged his loss and with a stoppage and showed some power.

And you may not like Proksa, and I'm not here trying to overrate him, but he was top 10-15 in the rankings, regardless of whether people think he is good or not.

Personally I think Golovkin beats any top 10 Middleweight and a Martinez-Golovkin match up would be fantastic.....but that's besides the point. The point I'm trying to make is Chavez Jr fought absolutely nobody, besides Lee......who could be classified SOMEWHAT in the same class as Proksa..... yet JCC earned a shot at Sergio........ If Chavez Jr fighting Martinez after one solid win can be justified, certainly Golovkin fighting a guy like Martinez after one solid win can be justified as well. In my opinion, of course.
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#24
Old 09-02-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Absolutely agree.

Golovkin's a good fighter but he's done nothing to suggest he's the best at MW. Nothing at all.

As you put it, his best win is against a guy who's 1-1 with Kerry Hope.
Cmon if you watch that fight, you know he didnt really lose
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#25
Old 09-02-2012, 07:21 PM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by Russian Crushin View Post
Cmon if you watch that fight, you know he didnt really lose
Thought it was a close fight that could have gone either way.

Wasn't surprised at all that Hope got the Decision.
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#26
Old 09-02-2012, 07:21 PM
dan_cov
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Originally Posted by King- View Post
Maybe not P4P king, but he gets hyped up a lot. Not even necessarily on this forum, but IRL as well. Lee is bigger then Proksa, but I do not believe he is a far superior fighter. Certainly not by a huge margin. Vera is more then capable of pulling an upset, but lets not be mistaken here, he lost to all of the top guys he's faced. Just like Kerry Hope, he's not exactly world-class. (not comparing the two)

Regarding Proksa's loss to Hope, I did not get a chance to watch that fight, but from what I understand, Proksa's eye was swollen in round 3 and he fought 9 rounds with bad vision? Correct me if I'm wrong. And you say he didn't look great in the rematch, but he got the job done. He knocked him out.....where as Lee went the full 12 with Vera. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but at least Proksa avenged his loss and with a stoppage and showed some power.

And you may not like Proksa, and I'm not here trying to overrate him, but he was top 10-15 in the rankings, regardless of whether people think he is good or not.

Personally I think Golovkin beats any top 10 Middleweight and a Martinez-Golovkin match up would be fantastic.....but that's besides the point. The point I'm trying to make is Chavez Jr fought absolutely nobody, besides Lee......who could be classified SOMEWHAT in the same class as Proksa..... yet JCC earned a shot at Sergio........ If Chavez Jr fighting Martinez after one solid win can be justified, certainly Golovkin fighting a guy like Martinez after one solid win can be justified as well. In my opinion, of course.

Chavez Jr has Sergios WBC title does he not? & Chavez vs Sergio makes a lot of sense financially, they are the #1 & #2 ranked middleweights whilst I am not high on Chavez Jr I think you maybe underestimating his opposition a little. There is no doubt in my mind with a draw against Molina and a win & wins over Rubio, Lee, Zbik etc he has fought a lot better opposition than Golovkin & Proksa.

Golovkin vs Geale seems the next in line in a unification bout so hopefully this goes ahead & the winner can face Martinez (I believe Chavez Jr is going upto 168 after regardless). I've got no problem with that though I don't think Geales chin would hold up so we'd still be non the wiser too just how good Golovkin really is going into that.
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