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#1
Old 08-31-2012, 03:51 AM
Mintcar923
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Default Do you think Sonny Liston was overrated?

If you think about it he was not champ for very long and didn't have the most impressive record. He perhaps had two very commanding performances against Floyd Patterson. And when he had a chance to really prove himself against Ali he failed miserably twice. Do you think he belongs in the top ten heavyweight ATG list? Just wondering...
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#2
Old 08-31-2012, 04:10 AM
Panamaniac
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Sonny was a respectable champion and the George Foreman of his day. He's undoubtedly within the top 15 and I wouldn't put-up much of an argument against, if he were ranked 10th. on anyone's list.
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#3
Old 08-31-2012, 04:30 AM
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Yeah but you have to remember Sonny Liston was an older boxer when he beat Patterson and then faced a very young Cassius Clay who of course went on to be the most recognized boxer in history.

Sonny is a top 10 ATG IMO. His jab, baleful stare, strength, power.. The man had some serious weapons.
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#4
Old 08-31-2012, 04:54 AM
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Sonny Liston's most impressive wins came before his championship. He cleaned it out (as best he could, some of the names avoided him. Famously, Henry Cooper for example) in dominant fashion and THEN became champion. That's because Patterson, personally, wanted to fight him. Cus D'Amato wanted no part of Liston but Patterson put his foot down.

Liston has the misfortune of having run into Ali (past his best, no less) and has become more famous for losing to Ali than his destruction of Patterson.


Quote:
And when he had a chance to really prove himself against Ali he failed miserably twice
What past prime fighters would YOU pick over the Ali of that fight?

In fact, which fighters would you pick to be competitive with him at that stage of their career? You could score Clay-Liston I a draw at the time of the stoppage. That isn't failing miserably. This is Ali we're talking about

Last edited by Capaedia; 08-31-2012 at 05:01 AM.
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#5
Old 08-31-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
Sonny Liston's most impressive wins came before his championship. He cleaned it out (as best he could, some of the names avoided him. Famously, Henry Cooper for example) in dominant fashion and THEN became champion. That's because Patterson, personally, wanted to fight him. Cus D'Amato wanted no part of Liston but Patterson put his foot down.

Liston has the misfortune of having run into Ali (past his best, no less) and has become more famous for losing to Ali than his destruction of Patterson.




What past prime fighters would YOU pick over the Ali of that fight?

In fact, which fighters would you pick to be competitive with him at that stage of their career? You could score Clay-Liston I a draw at the time of the stoppage. That isn't failing miserably. This is Ali we're talking about
Lol i read that Cooper's manager was asked about Henry fighting Liston and he baulked "FIGHT HIM!? I wouldn't let Henry walk on the same side of the Street as Him!"

Liston for me is one of the best HW's who ever did it, like u say most of his quality work was done pre title and then he ran into Ali/Clay
Top 10 guy for me
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#6
Old 08-31-2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
Sonny Liston's most impressive wins came before his championship. He cleaned it out (as best he could, some of the names avoided him. Famously, Henry Cooper for example) in dominant fashion and THEN became champion. That's because Patterson, personally, wanted to fight him. Cus D'Amato wanted no part of Liston but Patterson put his foot down.

Liston has the misfortune of having run into Ali (past his best, no less) and has become more famous for losing to Ali than his destruction of Patterson.




What past prime fighters would YOU pick over the Ali of that fight?

In fact, which fighters would you pick to be competitive with him at that stage of their career? You could score Clay-Liston I a draw at the time of the stoppage. That isn't failing miserably. This is Ali we're talking about
A lot of people either don't know this or ignore it. There seems to be a misconception with some that Liston's reputation was built fron the Patterson fights. Liston's reputation was there before the Patterson fight which is why it didn't happen until it was long overdue. If Cus D'amato had his way it would have never happened.

Knowing what Cassius Clay became after becoming Muhammad Ali, I wouldn't consider Liston losing to him any kind of disgrace. I would have a hard time picking any heavyweight in history(prime or not) over Ali that night.
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#7
Old 08-31-2012, 01:37 PM
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Liston would show up in my top 30 somewhere close to 30! He did alot things very well and I doubt he really enjoyed boxing to begin with. He was a troubled man who got mixed in with people who used him and he couldn't escape his life! Sonny was a good boxer with alot of ability we just didn't see it that often and I'm not sure he was allowed to show it either.
Liston was disguarded and if you look closely at his life its all tragedy! Ray.
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#8
Old 08-31-2012, 01:40 PM
AntonTheMeh
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no.

he just happened to run into the greatest heavyweight of all time in ali.

one thing that i don't get is, how frazier and him never got to get it on even after having a pretty good run post ali.
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#9
Old 08-31-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonTheMedium View Post
no.

he just happened to run into the greatest heavyweight of all time in ali.

one thing that i don't get is, how frazier and him never got to get it on even after having a pretty good run post ali.
Liston was blackballed after the second Ali fight and no other contender would touch him. Boxing was different back then. Duran and Tyson wouldn't have been given the same chance for redemption that they got either. I mean when Ali was forced into exile, they had an 8 man tournament (not even including Frazier) that Liston wasn't even invited to.
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#10
Old 08-31-2012, 01:50 PM
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Liston could be top 10, but not higher than Marciano
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