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#11
Old 08-16-2012, 09:06 PM
Rome-By-Ko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Corners View Post
Yes.

10 titles in 6 weight classes. 2x Lineal Champ (1x WW and 1x SWW).

Wins over Bredahl (WBO SFW champ/Top 10 SFW), Paez, Molina, Ruelas (IBF LW champ/#2 LW), G. Hernandez, Leija, Chavez (WBC JWW champ/#3 JWW), Gonzalez (Top 10 JWW), Whitaker (WBC WW champ/#1 WW/#3 P4P), Rivera (Top 10 WW), Charpentier (Top 10 WW), Quartey (#3 WW), Carr (Top 10 WW), Gatti, Castillejo (WBC SWW champ/Top 10 SWW), Vargas (WBA SWW champ/#2 SWW), and Sturm (WBO MW champ/Top 10 MW).

He probably should have lost to Sturm , and his fights with Whitaker and Quartey were really close. But at the same time, you can easily say he should have won against Trinidad, and his fights with Mosley were close and he probably deserved at least one of those wins.

He's in the Top 100 easily, which to me is ATG.
I agree with this post...
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#12
Old 08-16-2012, 09:07 PM
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Like Spray Resistant once said, unless you're over 100 years old and have seen decades of footage of all kinds of fighters, you can't have a legit top 100 ATG list.

Just a copied and pasted ATG list, or word of mouth ATG list. But never your "own" ATG list, it's impossible. People should just have their very own ATG list with the fighters being there based on their own opinions.

As for the actual question at hand, Oscar De La Hoya fought 5 "top 100 ATG's", Julio Cesar Chavez[twice], Pernell Whitaker, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr, and Manny Pacquiao. He also fought Non-ATG fighters who are HOF'ers like Hector Camacho, Tito Trinidad, and Shane Mosley. Then he has a bunch of really good fighters who could have been considered A class when he fought them but who are probably not HOF worthy, Ike Quartey, Genaro Hernandez, Fernando Vargas, Ricardo Mayorga, Felix Sturm. Then there's a list of guys who were good and you can place them where ever you want, just probably not A class fighters, Leija, Ruelas, Gatti, Carr, Molina, Paez, Campas, Forbes.

Overall, in terms of fighters faced, it's an All-Time Great resume for sure. Win or lose, fighting 5 ATG's and going the distance with 3 of them is no easy task. Take away his "win" over Sturm and make it a loss, and give him his rightful wins against Trinidad and Mosley II, and his resume in terms of wins would look a hell of a lot better, despite giving him the loss against Strum; Trinidad and Mosley more than make up for that loss. If you want to be pushy, and you hate Oscar, fine take away his win over Quartey too, still, prime Mosley and prime Trinidad more than make up for that. Losses against Quartey, Mosley I, Sturm, Hopkins, Mayweather, and Pacquiao. But wins against Chavez, Camacho, Whitaker, Trinidad, Mosley II, Hernandez, Vargas, Mayorga, Leija, Gatti. Probably the best resume of the late 90s- mid 2000s.
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#13
Old 08-16-2012, 09:25 PM
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all time greats don't take dives or lose on purpose in order to promote fighters.

Last edited by daggum; 08-16-2012 at 09:50 PM.
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#14
Old 08-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Frank Ducketts
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I try to fit guys in these 3 categories:

1. Legend- Doing something in the ring that not too fans and critics thought that could be done one or more times. Resume second to none, reigns, kos other great, ATG, and even another legend.

Examples: Muhammad Ali, Willie Pep, Archie Moore, Sugar Ray Robinson, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker. Henry Armstrong holding 3 titles in 3 different divisions simultaneously. Duran dominating the lw division for 6 years, beating Leonard, and beating Iran Barkley at age 38 at mw.

2. ATG=All time great: A fighter whose style that can stand the test of times in any division and beating top competition. Loses only to the very, very best. Reigns, crushes comp or unanimously wins. Could've done a lil more to attain legendary status.

Examples: Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Salvador Sanchez*

3. Great: A champion who wins big fights more than he loses big fights. Fights almost everyone and wins those big fights more than loses them. He does good win or lose and always comes to fight. Shockingly loses to an unheralded fighter, but then beats an equal or upsets a favored fighter.

Examples: Eric Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera, Mike McCallum, Juan Marquez, Oscar De La Hoya, Mark Johnson.

Note: I could've used many other names of the top 100 best fighters, but I chose to use familiar names so that all ages of fans understand where I'm coming from.

Last edited by Frank Ducketts; 08-16-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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#15
Old 08-16-2012, 09:34 PM
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No. Near-great yes, borderline-ATG maybe, definite ATG no.

Poet

Last edited by Ziggy Stardust; 08-16-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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#16
Old 08-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Frank Ducketts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Kev- View Post
Like Spray Resistant once said, unless you're over 100 years old and have seen decades of footage of all kinds of fighters, you can't have a legit top 100 ATG list.

Just a copied and pasted ATG list, or word of mouth ATG list. But never your "own" ATG list, it's impossible. People should just have their very own ATG list with the fighters being there based on their own opinions.

As for the actual question at hand, Oscar De La Hoya fought 5 "top 100 ATG's", Julio Cesar Chavez[twice], Pernell Whitaker, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr, and Manny Pacquiao. He also fought Non-ATG fighters who are HOF'ers like Hector Camacho, Tito Trinidad, and Shane Mosley. Then he has a bunch of really good fighters who could have been considered A class when he fought them but who are probably not HOF worthy, Ike Quartey, Genaro Hernandez, Fernando Vargas, Ricardo Mayorga, Felix Sturm. Then there's a list of guys who were good and you can place them where ever you want, just probably not A class fighters, Leija, Ruelas, Gatti, Carr, Molina, Paez, Campas, Forbes.

Overall, in terms of fighters faced, it's an All-Time Great resume for sure. Win or lose, fighting 5 ATG's and going the distance with 3 of them is no easy task. Take away his "win" over Sturm and make it a loss, and give him his rightful wins against Trinidad and Mosley II, and his resume in terms of wins would look a hell of a lot better, despite giving him the loss against Strum; Trinidad and Mosley more than make up for that loss. If you want to be pushy, and you hate Oscar, fine take away his win over Quartey too, still, prime Mosley and prime Trinidad more than make up for that. Losses against Quartey, Mosley I, Sturm, Hopkins, Mayweather, and Pacquiao. But wins against Chavez, Camacho, Whitaker, Trinidad, Mosley II, Hernandez, Vargas, Mayorga, Leija, Gatti. Probably the best resume of the late 90s- mid 2000s.
Very good post.
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#17
Old 08-16-2012, 09:47 PM
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I would say he was a great face for boxing but ATG no.
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#18
Old 08-16-2012, 09:48 PM
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Good fighter, good skills NOT a Great Fighter by any means. Ray.
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#19
Old 08-16-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
No. Near-great yes, borderline-ATG maybe, definate ATG no.

Poet
Don't you mean "definite"?
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#20
Old 08-16-2012, 11:39 PM
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Don't you mean "definite"?
No, I meant Spelling Nazis can fvck off :hand9:
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