Let's say all heavyweight greats were in the same era?

[poet682006]

Originally Posted by res

Certainly, but it's easier to tie up and control a small Louis than a larger one on the inside.

The same way Ali had an easy time tying up Frazier? I dunno, I guess watching today's fighters people think tying up is just automatic "oh he'll just tie him up when he gets inside". People forget (probably because no one does it anymore) that the other guy can still hit you while you're tying him up.....and make no mistake Louis can hurt a guy with VERY short punches and he wasn't adverse to going to an opponent's body (something people these days seem to think are meaningless). I don't like Ali's prospects in close against Louis regardless what size a Louis it is. Ali needs to keep that fight on the outside at all costs if he wants to win.

Poet

[Mintcar923]

Ali was one of the most durable fighters ever. He withstood short power-punches from Frazier/Foreman who were both powerhouses and arguably stronger than Louis. So wiley Muhammad may also hold his own on the inside as he did in The Rumble. Regardless, I doubt Louis would be able to out-smart a prime Ali into fighting his fight. But, he does have a punchers chance.

[poet682006]

Originally Posted by Mintcar923

Ali was one of the most durable fighters ever. He withstood short power-punches from Frazier/Foreman who were both powerhouses and arguably stronger than Louis. So wiley Muhammad may also hold his own on the inside as he did in The Rumble. Regardless, I doubt Louis would be able to out-smart a prime Ali into fighting his fight. But, he does have a punchers chance.

Louis was not a wild swinger like Foreman.....in fact he was the most accurate Heavyweight puncher ever. He didn't lose power in short punches the way Foreman did and he most certainly isn't going to gas out the way Foreman did. Those body punches DO count in the scoring you know. You CAN win a round throwing exclusively body punches. It's only in very recent years that judges have gotten lazy and stopped scoring body shots.

I believe Ali had the footspeed to keep the fight on the outside just enough to win a decision. What I DON'T believe is that he can win a decision on the inside or beat Joe Louis the way he fought Foreman in Zaire.

Poet

[res]

Originally Posted by poet682006

The same way Ali had an easy time tying up Frazier? I dunno, I guess watching today's fighters people think tying up is just automatic "oh he'll just tie him up when he gets inside". People forget (probably because no one does it anymore) that the other guy can still hit you while you're tying him up.....and make no mistake Louis can hurt a guy with VERY short punches and he wasn't adverse to going to an opponent's body (something people these days seem to think are meaningless). I don't like Ali's prospects in close against Louis regardless what size a Louis it is. Ali needs to keep that fight on the outside at all costs if he wants to win.

Poet

I don't believe that Ali had great deal of difficulty tying Fraizer up when he needed to (although naturally Frazier's obsessive non-stop bobbing and weaving always complicated it somewhat). The real trouble Ali had was "keeping Frazier off of him". Ali after all could not just hold Frazier all night , he had to actually land punches, and Frazier was willing to eat Ali punches as he continually barreled in to land his own. Louis didn't really fight like this and was more strategic even when playing the role of an inside fighter. If Louis is trying to get inside on Ali without getting hit then it becomes a strategy match, and very different from the Frazier matches..

[Sexual biscuit]

I personally think Ali would struggle with Louis in a tough 50-50 fight..

My prediction would be a draw...

These two heavyweights would give us something special like the Thrilla

it would be up and down all night with no clear dominator and a hard one to score

[KO'er]

Muhammad Ali!

[Scott9945]

Originally Posted by res

I don't believe that Ali had a decisive amount of difficulty tying Fraizer up when he needed to (although naturally Frazier's obsessive non-stop bobbing and weaving always complicated it somewhat). The real trouble Ali had was "keeping Frazier off of him". Ali after all could not just hold Frazier all night , he had to actually land punches, and Frazier was willing to eat Ali punches as he continually barreled in to land his own. Louis didn't really fight like this and was more strategic even when playing the role of an inside fighter. If Louis is trying to get inside on Ali without getting hit then it becomes a strategy match, and very different from the Frazier matches..

Ali certainly didn't have any problem tying up Frazier in their dismal second fight.

[SBleeder]

Originally Posted by Mintcar923

I don't quite know what you mean. Ali had the better reach and boxing ability.

No, he didn't.

[crold1]

Originally Posted by Scott9945

Ali certainly didn't have any problem tying up Frazier in their dismal second fight.

That's more legend than reality. Not dismal. JUst not on the level of the other two. Actually quite a good Heavyweight fight. If it happened today, people would lose their ish.

[Scott9945]

Originally Posted by crold1

That's more legend than reality. Not dismal. JUst not on the level of the other two. Actually quite a good Heavyweight fight. If it happened today, people would lose their ish.

We're never going to agree on this Cliff. I remember watching it live on closed circuit. That fight sucked, then or now.

Any other opinions?