Let's say all heavyweight greats were in the same era?

[res]

Originally Posted by Sugarj

They were both damned quick heavyweights who could fight fast paced 15 round fights. Is modern conditioning much better in boxing terms? I don't know. Olympic standards have certainly improved, but world class boxers' workrate doesn't look any more impressive on film today than 60-70 years ago.

Hey, I was just repeating the general specifications the OP layed out, but my point was that one result of those specifications (a bigger Louis) could be telling in a bout with Ali when it come to taking the fight to the inside. I think Ali would control things outside.

As for superior conditioning, I certainly wouldn't agree with any such claim, I don't know how anyone would. Fighters that are weary after 10 rounds vs fighters that fought furiously for 15.

[Sugarj]

Originally Posted by res

Hey, I was just repeating the general specifications the OP layed out, but my point was that one result of those specifications (a bigger Louis) could be telling in a bout with Ali when it come to taking the fight to the inside. I think Ali would control things outside.

As for superior conditioning, I certainly wouldn't agree with any such claim, I don't know how anyone would. Fighters that are weary after 10 rounds vs fighters that fought furiously for 15.

I'd agree, I think Ali's likely plan would be to control things from the outside. He'd keep mobile and avoid the ropes. Whatever size of Louis Ali fought, he would have to keep out of range of Louis's fast, powerful and accurate combinations in close.

[res]

Originally Posted by Sugarj

I'd agree, I think Ali's likely plan would be to control things from the outside. He'd keep mobile and avoid the ropes. Whatever size of Louis Ali fought, he would have to keep out of range of Louis's fast, powerful and accurate combinations in close.

Yeah, to be clear though I was talking about Grappling inside when I was talking about "controlling" things there, I didn't mean his punching. Louis' punches would be a threat in either form, but in the smaller form Ali could easily tie him up inside where he would want to be. The extra weight would only be a significantly negative factor if he wanted to try to fight on the outside but it would help him inside.

[res]

Originally Posted by danthepoetman

As I said before, Louis was 6’2”, which is only one inch smaller than Ali. In his prime, he fought at a bit over 200 pounds, which is young Frazier’s fight weight. No one could match Louis on the inside. His knock out punches were the shortest in boxing history, 12, 18 inches often. .

Frazier was naturally bigger, but only by a hair really. The issue is would Louis fight like Frazier, barging nonstop into Ali's punches in order to land his own, or would he be more cautious as he usually was, even as an inside fighter. If he is more cautious it allows Ali to time and measure him on the outside and tie him up on the inside.

[Mintcar923]

Originally Posted by res

Frazier was naturally bigger, but only by a hair really. The issue is would Louis fight like Frazier, barging nonstop into Ali's punches in order to land his own, or would he be more cautious as he usually was, even as an inside fighter. If he is more cautious it allows Ali to time and measure him on the outside and tie him up on the inside.

Joe Louis is absolutely nothing like Frazier. He'd fight Ali straight-up and try to battle jabs with him. Ali would most definitely fight extremely catiously and scientifically. Actually, there'd be a very good chance it'd be a chess match. I really don't think it would be a very exciting fight. Ali would win on points but it would not be a blow-out.

[res]

Originally Posted by Mintcar923

Joe Louis is absolutely nothing like Frazier. He'd fight Ali straight-up and try to battle jabs with him. Ali would most definitely fight extremely catiously and scientifically. Actually, there'd be a very good chance it'd be a chess match. I really don't think it would be a very exciting fight. Ali would win on points but it would not be a blow-out.

Louis was more versatile than that, he could brawl inside when he wanted to although obviously he preferred to Box. But I'm not convinced he could actually adopt a Frazier-like style which is the best approach for a smaller man to try to take the fight inside against Ali.

[Mintcar923]

Originally Posted by res

Louis was more versatile than that, he could brawl inside when he wanted to although obviously he preferred to Box. But I'm not convinced he could actually adopt a Frazier-like style which is the best approach for a smaller man to try to take the fight inside against Ali.

Ali would not let him brawl. He would tie him up inside. He'd have a sort-of caution-first approach as he did in Frazier fight 2....

[res]

Originally Posted by Mintcar923

Ali would not let him brawl. He would tie him up inside . He'd have a sort-of caution-first approach as he did in Frazier fight 2....

Yeah, that is why I give a bigger Louis a better chance here. As I said earlier, in various fights a bigger Louis would give his opponents a lot more to think about , although in others he would be best served to remain as he was. Against an Ali or Holmes it would serve him well. Against fighters like the Klitchkos a smaller quicker Louis would be more advantageous.

[Mintcar923]

Originally Posted by res

Yeah, that is why I give a bigger Louis a better chance here. As I said earlier, in various fights a bigger Louis would give his opponents a lot more to think about , although in others he would be best served to remain as he was. Against an Ali or Holmes it would serve him well. Against fighters like the Klitchkos a smaller quicker Louis would be more advantageous.

I don't quite know what you mean. Ali had the better reach and boxing ability. From the outside he would have the advantage against Joe. Then when Louis would be in close he'd tie him up. Muhammad would have the upper-hand.

[res]

Originally Posted by Mintcar923

I don't quite know what you mean. Ali had the better reach and boxing ability. From the outside he would have the advantage against Joe. Then when Louis would be in close he'd tie him up. Muhammad would have the upper-hand.

Certainly, but it's easier to tie up and control a small Louis than a larger one on the inside.