Prime James Toney vs Andre Ward @168 - Page 3 - Boxing Forum
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:35 PM #21
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Andre Ward's not even prime yet, give him another 2 years and 4-5 fights and then we'll see.

As of right now, obviously Prime Toney by a boring UD
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:37 PM #22
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Toney, too slick, too black.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:45 PM #23
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I can't confidently pick this fight right now. I'd only be picking Toney because of his history.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:48 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Double_L View Post
Toney, too slick, too black.
well his black ass is def blacker than andre ward lmao. tko via darker shade of black
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:05 PM #25
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Originally Posted by MalikKnucklez View Post
I agree and disagree with you, T.

Ward style sometimes makes for a very, very deceptive evaluation of his skills & strengths. Actually, if there is a contemporary boxer i can compare him to, stylistically, i'd say the guy he is facing, Chad Dawson.

They are what I call the "Pretty Ugly" dudes.

This is what i mean;
both Chad & Andre, when u look at them on the surface, are prototypical boxers, like you mentioned. They give u the angles, exceptional footwork, utilize their jab, have above-average speed...and they give the impression of the type of fighter who's built to cleanly outpoint.

But if u review all of their fights, BOTH of them are at their best when they decide to get "ugly". By "ugly" i mean activity/inside game as well as a fair share of sloppy holding, grabbing, and outsmarting. At mid & close range is where Chad & Dre have made the biggest impression in Rounds in virtually all of their world class fights. Working on the mid-range to the inside with clean combinations and bad intentions. Case in point, both fighter's have one of their strongest punches in the their Uppercuts. U consistently hear Chad get criticized for not showing this "side" more, because clearly it's a flash of when he is at his best. The same with Ward. A lot of folks thought he was gonna get on his bike against Froch, who many people thought would be the bigger puncher. Ward barely fought that fight on his backfoot, and stood right in the pocket with Froch for the majority of it.

It's never a "brawl" or high-intensity scrap with them, but it's one where they choose their spots of when and how to do so. They are pretty boxers who get ugly. Folks use to have the same misconceptions about De LaHoya coming up.

One thing that i do agree with you on is that it would be a difficult fight for Toney. A fight with Ward will always be, regardless of who he's facing. But if Ward was to win that fight against Toney, working on the outside just simply wouldn't be enough, no matter how big of a "headache" he might give Toney in the process.
Great assessment, I thought I was the only one who picked up on things like this. I'd say though, that Ward is an all around more versatile fighter then Dawson. I'd also go so far as to say he's more mentally secure, and an all around colder and meaner individual then Dawson.

Ward is a very humble and nice guy, but when he fights and even outside of the ring, when you look into his eyes you can see he has one hell of a mean streak. I just thought that people were instantly going with Toney because he's a "past great" so to speak. Which is pretty typical on here. I love Toney, he is/was a masterclass. But, so is Andre Ward. Ward reminds me a lot of Toney in the sense that he doesn't have a lot of natural athletic talent, but he's so skilled and naturally strong and made for fighting that when you see them fight everything comes across as seamless. The same kind of thing goes for B.Hop.

I think this fight would go 1 of 2 ways due to the style clash. It would either be a back and forth high speed chess match brawl. Or, a slow paced methodical and calculated kind of fight. BOTH of them would have to unleash their entire arsenal to beat the other, and that can't be denied. People underestimate Ward's overall toughness. Froch said himself about Ward, that "he's not that hard of a puncher, but he is quite physically strong". (I paraphrased slightly there.)Carl Froch is one strong son of a b.itch. And Ward mauled him around with relative ease. And, Froch had a look of shock on his face that I've never seen before when Ward was shoving him backwards, even when he got rocked and dropped by Taylor he still looked confident.

I think Ward would smother Toney's work on the inside a lot. All I know is that it'd be great to see, just like I'd love to see a fight between Ward and prime Bernard. Yea, they may not be exciting brawls, but the level of skill that would be on display would be astonishing.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:17 PM #26
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Originally Posted by UnicornGirl View Post
Andre Ward's not even prime yet, give him another 2 years and 4-5 fights and then we'll see.

As of right now, obviously Prime Toney by a boring UD
Wards not prime yet? I abso-fukn-lutely disagree.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:21 PM #27
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Originally Posted by Tmann400 View Post
Great assessment, I thought I was the only one who picked up on things like this. I'd say though, that Ward is an all around more versatile fighter then Dawson. I'd also go so far as to say he's more mentally secure, and an all around colder and meaner individual then Dawson.

Ward is a very humble and nice guy, but when he fights and even outside of the ring, when you look into his eyes you can see he has one hell of a mean streak. I just thought that people were instantly going with Toney because he's a "past great" so to speak. Which is pretty typical on here. I love Toney, he is/was a masterclass. But, so is Andre Ward. Ward reminds me a lot of Toney in the sense that he doesn't have a lot of natural athletic talent, but he's so skilled and naturally strong and made for fighting that when you see them fight everything comes across as seamless. The same kind of thing goes for B.Hop.

I think this fight would go 1 of 2 ways due to the style clash. It would either be a back and forth high speed chess match brawl. Or, a slow paced methodical and calculated kind of fight. BOTH of them would have to unleash their entire arsenal to beat the other, and that can't be denied. People underestimate Ward's overall toughness. Froch said himself about Ward, that "he's not that hard of a puncher, but he is quite physically strong". (I paraphrased slightly there.)Carl Froch is one strong son of a b.itch. And Ward mauled him around with relative ease. And, Froch had a look of shock on his face that I've never seen before when Ward was shoving him backwards, even when he got rocked and dropped by Taylor he still looked confident.

I think Ward would smother Toney's work on the inside a lot. All I know is that it'd be great to see, just like I'd love to see a fight between Ward and prime Bernard. Yea, they may not be exciting brawls, but the level of skill that would be on display would be astonishing.

The bold

If you think anyone would smother Toney on the inside and get away with it I would suggest you watch more toney fights and not a couple but actually catch up on his career. I would have to say that everyone who could not out box toney wound up trying to do exactly what you stated. If anything I would expect stoney to shine on the inside. And not speaking as a fan of him which I am but simply because his entire career he built and worked brilliantly off that trying to smother tactic. It would not work.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:55 PM #28
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Originally Posted by AyoMaDu View Post
The bold

If you think anyone would smother Toney on the inside and get away with it I would suggest you watch more toney fights and not a couple but actually catch up on his career. I would have to say that everyone who could not out box toney wound up trying to do exactly what you stated. If anything I would expect stoney to shine on the inside. And not speaking as a fan of him which I am but simply because his entire career he built and worked brilliantly off that trying to smother tactic. It would not work.
Dude, I'm a big Toney fan. And a longtime one at that. Him and Bernard were two of the very first fighters I saw, and were two of my original favorites. I've seen TONS of lights out fights. But think about it, who has lights out fought that was better or hell, even remotely close to being as good as Ward is at smothering a guys work on the inside? No one that I can think of.

This fight is virtually a toss up IMO, where both men would have to utilize every single one of their tools to win. What I was disagreeing with was, that a lot of the people were picking Toney based on the fact he's a "past great", and they were basically saying in a nutshell "Old school beats new school". And, that's pretty typical on here. People are completely ignorant and/or insane if they think this would be an easy fight for EITHER guy. THAT'S my initial point here.

I see this turning into a trilogy, because both are so skilled, that who would win would really come down to who can utilize their best tools on fight night better.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:07 PM #29
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Dude, I'm a big Toney fan. And a longtime one at that. Him and Bernard were two of the very first fighters I saw, and were two of my original favorites. I've seen TONS of lights out fights. But think about it, who has lights out fought that was better or hell, even remotely close to being as good as Ward is at smothering a guys work on the inside? No one that I can think of.

This fight is virtually a toss up IMO, where both men would have to utilize every single one of their tools to win. What I was disagreeing with was, that a lot of the people were picking Toney based on the fact he's a "past great", and they were basically saying in a nutshell "Old school beats new school". And, that's pretty typical on here. People are completely ignorant and/or insane if they think this would be an easy fight for EITHER guy. THAT'S my initial point here.

I see this turning into a trilogy, because both are so skilled, that who would win would really come down to who can utilize their best tools on fight night better.

OK which toney would you pin against which ward?
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:37 PM #30
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Good matchup. I'd favor Toney, but wouldn't bet a ton on it because you never knew which James would show up. It is possible that Ward will continue to improve after his upcoming fight with Dawson and later maybe Dirrell.
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