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#11
Old 07-23-2012, 10:10 PM
taansend
In denial about UK refs
 
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post

I disagree and think same day weigh ins are needed more than ever. If a fighter chooses to put himself in danger by dehydrating himself to get to the lowest possible and obviously unsafe weight than that's on him and his team. I don't like it, but he has no one else to blame. If an opponent who naturally belongs in a weight class get killed by a guy weighing in 2 and 3 weight classes out of his division at fight time the blame goes on the sport for letting the integrity of having a WEIGHT DIVISION to begin w3ith get compromised. There are 6 more weight classes today than there were just 35 years ago so there is no excuse for a fighter to drain himself except he cant compete at the next class and seeks an unfair advantage to stay in the one he wants.
I can see your argument but let's be honest, fighters are often young, vulnerable guys who just happen to have good skills in the ring. Many (oh so many) are often used & manipulated by management, hangers on, bad advice etc etc by people who just want to make money off of them.

They need protecting. It's THEIR lives that are on the line. We're just sitting on our arses at home.

The governing boards, for all of their bad, actually made the right choice here.

Maybe we need stricter weight regulations in the build up to fights, between fights or whatever. I don't know. But this rule is a good one.

For the record, I think we have too many weight divisions. 10 would be a good amount ranging from below 50kg to above 100kg with 8 in between. But the governing boards make more money from more titles so they'll stick with it.

Thanks for your response. Same day weigh ins would be better in many many ways but this rules saves a lot of lives. It's worth it.

Last edited by taansend; 07-23-2012 at 10:13 PM.
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#12
Old 07-23-2012, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by taansend View Post
I can see your argument but let's be honest, fighters are often young, vulnerable guys who just happen to have good skills in the ring. Many (oh so many) are often used & manipulated by management, hangers on, bad advice etc etc by people who just want to make money off of them.

They need protecting. It's THEIR lives that are on the line. We're just sitting on our arses at home.

The governing boards, for all of their bad, actually made the right choice here.

Maybe we need stricter weight regulations in the build up to fights, between fights or whatever. I don't know. But this rule is a good one.

For the record, I think we have too many weight divisions. 10 would be a good amount ranging from below 50kg to above 100kg with 8 in between. But the governing boards make more money from more titles so they'll stick with it.

Thanks for your response. Same day weigh ins would be better in many many ways but this rules saves a lot of lives. It's worth it.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Young fighters are vulnerable to manipulation, but they're still men and have a CHOICE. A fighter who NATURALLY belongs in a weight class but has to fight a guy 20lbs over the limit on fight night has no choice if he wants to get paid. He's unfairly being put in danger by men willing to take a 2 and 3 weight class advantage come fight night because of a rule that only benefits the sanctioning orgs overall. I doubt I'd have much problem with this if we went back to the original 8 weight divisions, but the ABC orgs would lose money. This is after all what its about...not safety.
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#13
Old 07-23-2012, 11:15 PM
taansend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree. Young fighters are vulnerable to manipulation, but they're still men and have a CHOICE. A fighter who NATURALLY belongs in a weight class but has to fight a guy 20lbs over the limit on fight night has no choice if he wants to get paid. He's unfairly being put in danger by men willing to take a 2 and 3 weight class advantage come fight night because of a rule that only benefits the sanctioning orgs overall. I doubt I'd have much problem with this if we went back to the original 8 weight divisions, but the ABC orgs would lose money. This is after all what its about...not safety.
I'm not strictly disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that in the current scene the day before weigh in is better, probably even more so with the prevalent use of PEDs nowadays. If there was a way we could stop the Cerebrospinal fluid from diminishing I'd go with that but there's not & I've seen too many tragedies to change my mind.

But I agree with you about the weight class situation. A fighter should have to forfeit his WHOLE purse if he comes in overweight. Broner didn't even try. And his actions have left a nasty taste in boxings mouth.

And there was never really 8 weight divisions. That's a bit of a Ring magazine myth too. They talk about the 1950's & the eight divisions but the Light Welter has been around since the 1920's. And no one can tell me that Jackie Berg wasn't a legit Champion. Why not go back to TWO divisions, Light & Heavy. Over 140 or under 140. Choose..... Ten is best. We have smaller fighters than ever before & bigger fighters than ever before. The old divisions were mainly for US & Western European fighters.

Again, thanks for your comments. Nice to have a boxing discussion without boxers or fans being called names.... Very rare on the internet nowadays.
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#14
Old 07-24-2012, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taansend View Post
I'm not strictly disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that in the current scene the day before weigh in is better, probably even more so with the prevalent use of PEDs nowadays. If there was a way we could stop the Cerebrospinal fluid from diminishing I'd go with that but there's not & I've seen too many tragedies to change my mind.

But I agree with you about the weight class situation. A fighter should have to forfeit his WHOLE purse if he comes in overweight. Broner didn't even try. And his actions have left a nasty taste in boxings mouth.

And there was never really 8 weight divisions. That's a bit of a Ring magazine myth too. They talk about the 1950's & the eight divisions but the Light Welter has been around since the 1920's. And no one can tell me that Jackie Berg wasn't a legit Champion. Why not go back to TWO divisions, Light & Heavy. Over 140 or under 140. Choose..... Ten is best. We have smaller fighters than ever before & bigger fighters than ever before. The old divisions were mainly for US & Western European fighters.

Again, thanks for your comments. Nice to have a boxing discussion without boxers or fans being called names.... Very rare on the internet nowadays.
8 was the original but it is antiquated. I'd have no problem with 10 divisions and day before weigh ins.

You're welcome for the conversation and thank you as well. It doesn't always work out this way but this is how we like this section to run.
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#15
Old 07-24-2012, 01:55 AM
taansend
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
8 was the original but it is antiquated.
No it wasn't. Eight was the Ring magazine view. An admirable view but not an accurate one.

But it's not a relevant point now.
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#16
Old 07-24-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by taansend View Post
They were stopped for safety reasons. Lots of lives have been saved as a result. It may have had a detrimental effect on some aspects of the fight game but it's drastically reduced the amount of blood clots, brain damage & deaths.
It seems to me that allowing someone to weigh 160+ pounds on the night of the fight in a welterweight match is almost as dangerous as forcing fighters to dehydrate for a same-day weigh in.
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#17
Old 07-24-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by taansend View Post
No it wasn't. Eight was the Ring magazine view. An admirable view but not an accurate one.

But it's not a relevant point now.
Please educate me on this. I was always of the understanding it was 8. I know Jr. Lightweight wasn't an original division, but I can't say my knowledge is very solid of the origins of each weight division.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SBleeder View Post
It seems to me that allowing someone to weigh 160+ pounds on the night of the fight in a welterweight match is almost as dangerous as forcing fighters to dehydrate for a same-day weigh in.
The day before weigh-in is a "protect you from yourself" thing while endangering the other guy. Life isn't supposed to be like that.

If you train for 6-8 weeks and can't weigh in the day of without being starched....then you shouldn't be fighting at that weight.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:11 PM
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Duran vs Pryor in 1983 would have been a fight of the ages at 140.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
The day before weigh-in is a "protect you from yourself" thing while endangering the other guy. Life isn't supposed to be like that.

If you train for 6-8 weeks and can't weigh in the day of without being starched....then you shouldn't be fighting at that weight.
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