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View Poll Results: Would Klitschkos Have A Chance Against Haye If They Didn't Have Size Advantage?
Klitschkos have no chance against Haye if they were the same size as him 35 61.40%
Yes both Klitschko might still be able to beat Haye 17 29.82%
Only Vitali would have a chance 5 8.77%
Only Wladimir would have a chance 0 0%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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#21
Old 07-19-2012, 10:21 AM
Capaedia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix View Post
Wlad is way too one-dimensional though. He's got nowhere near as many looks as Vitali.

But Wlad perfected his limited style, and he has that size advantage so he usually just repeats the same formula over and over. If he was the same size as Haye that wouldn't be effective, he'd be getting hit a lot more, pushed back and forced into a brawl. I can't see Wlad lasting more than 6 rounds with Haye if they were the same size purely because Wlad's one-dimensional style would be much easier for Haye to overcome if they're the same size.

But prime Vitali would still be competitive I think, he's got more to his game than Wlad.
Early Wlad had a great jab and wasn't afraid to brawl.

Steward changed him to his 'one-dimensional' style.

One-dimensional is the most over-used and one of the most meaningless terms in boxing. Wlad is very difficult to hit, he controls distance and pace, he has a great right hand to keep them honest, he smothers (effectively yet boringly) any fighter that gets inside, and he has a full arsenal of punches.

Rios is one-dimensional. Wlad is not.
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#22
Old 07-19-2012, 10:24 AM
Fix
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Originally Posted by Superflo777 View Post
What makes you think Wlad wouldn't change his style to fit his size if he were smaller? He might be as explosive and still more powerful as Haye.
Basically because he's quite a one-dimensional fighter already. I can see Vitali changing up his style because he's already got diversity, but Wladimir just doesn't have the diversity now to indicate that he'd be able to have more diversity at a smaller weight.
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#23
Old 07-19-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Fix View Post
Basically because he's quite a one-dimensional fighter already. I can see Vitali changing up his style because he's already got diversity, but Wladimir just doesn't have the diversity now to indicate that he'd be able to have more diversity at a smaller weight.
Look 2 posts above you.
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#24
Old 07-19-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Superflo777 View Post
Look 2 posts above you.
lol.. That's a pointless post.

We're talking heavyweight where Haye didn't have to struggle to make weight. And we're talking prime for prime but without the size advantage.

Mock was Haye's 7th pro fight and Thompson was his 12th. Both at cruiserweight.

Do you need me to post Wladimir losing to Purrity, Sanders and Brewster? I'm sure you guys don't need to be reminded, but let me know and I can post them for you.. lol..
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#25
Old 07-19-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Fix View Post
lol.. That's a pointless post.

We're talking heavyweight where Haye didn't have to struggle to make weight. And we're talking prime for prime but without the size advantage.

Mock was Haye's 7th pro fight and Thompson was his 12th. Both at cruiserweight.

Do you need me to post Wladimir losing to Purrity, Sanders and Brewster? I'm sure you guys don't need to be reminded, but let me know and I can post them for you.. lol..
No no no, two posts. Post #21.
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#26
Old 07-19-2012, 10:49 AM
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Fix,

I don't think you've made a single good point in this thread. It is hard to say where a fighter would have been if they would have been born with different physical attributes. What if Haye was 6'7? Would he have made it to this level? Two of his biggest assets a fighter (speed, movement) would be diminished severely had that been the case.

If the klitschko's were shorter, then their attributes would all be balanced in a very different way. With disadvantages in one area, comes advantages in another. It is absolutely undeniable that the Klitschko's have displayed a much smarter style of boxing. They are FAR from one dimensional - that comment alone proves you don't know anything about anything.

In the end, this thread is trivial. There is not much point in discussing a fantasy world where Haye and Wlad were in their primes and the exact same size with the exact same attributes or what ever. It'd come down to ring smarts, and Wladimir has way more of that.

In the real world, Wladimir and Haye have already fought prime-for-prime. Haye promised to come out and deliver an earth shattering performance, where he moves, gives angles, and displays ferociousness like never seen before etc. The reality of the situation is that Wladimir and Haye have already fought, and Wladimir made your boy Haye look like an idiot in a boring ass fight. Another reality is that Wladimir is currently in the midst of a historic title reign. Despite your like or dislike of him, very few champs have strung together so many title defenses in a row. Haye couldn't have done it, with or without additional height.
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#27
Old 07-19-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kenso View Post
Fix,

I don't think you've made a single good point in this thread. It is hard to say where a fighter would have been if they would have been born with different physical attributes. What if Haye was 6'7? Would he have made it to this level? Two of his biggest assets a fighter (speed, movement) would be diminished severely had that been the case.

If the klitschko's were shorter, then their attributes would all be balanced in a very different way. With disadvantages in one area, comes advantages in another. It is absolutely undeniable that the Klitschko's have displayed a much smarter style of boxing. They are FAR from one dimensional - that comment alone proves you don't know anything about anything.

In the end, this thread is trivial. There is not much point in discussing a fantasy world where Haye and Wlad were in their primes and the exact same size with the exact same attributes or what ever. It'd come down to ring smarts, and Wladimir has way more of that.

In the real world, Wladimir and Haye have already fought prime-for-prime. Haye promised to come out and deliver an earth shattering performance, where he moves, gives angles, and displays ferociousness like never seen before etc. The reality of the situation is that Wladimir and Haye have already fought, and Wladimir made your boy Haye look like an idiot in a boring ass fight. Another reality is that Wladimir is currently in the midst of a historic title reign. Despite your like or dislike of him, very few champs have strung together so many title defenses in a row. Haye couldn't have done it, with or without additional height.
Some good points made
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#28
Old 07-19-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
Early Wlad had a great jab and wasn't afraid to brawl.

Steward changed him to his 'one-dimensional' style.

One-dimensional is the most over-used and one of the most meaningless terms in boxing. Wlad is very difficult to hit, he controls distance and pace, he has a great right hand to keep them honest, he smothers (effectively yet boringly) any fighter that gets inside, and he has a full arsenal of punches.

Rios is one-dimensional. Wlad is not.
Most of those things you mention are dependent on his size. He does have a great jab so that would carry over.

But he's difficult to hit because of his length, it allows him to position his body in a certain angle and distance. That wouldn't be half as effective if he was a smaller fighter.

He controls distance again because of his longer reach due to his size.

He does have a great right hand when it lands but his body weight helps him with that power. If he was smaller but had the same body weight, he'd be slower.

He's only able to smother that way again because of his size, he can force his weight down on to opponents.

Most of those things are size-dependent, apart from the jab.
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#29
Old 07-19-2012, 10:55 AM
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that would make them different fighters.kind of like how would Tyson fight if he was 6'8
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#30
Old 07-19-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Fix View Post
Most of those things you mention are dependent on his size. He does have a great jab so that would carry over.

But he's difficult to hit because of his length, it allows him to position his body in a certain angle and distance. That wouldn't be half as effective if he was a smaller fighter.

He controls distance again because of his longer reach due to his size.

He does have a great right hand when it lands but his body weight helps him with that power. If he was smaller but had the same body weight, he'd be slower.

He's only able to smother that way again because of his size, he can force his weight down on to opponents.

Most of those things are size-dependent, apart from the jab.
What do you mean if he was smaller but had the same weight? If he weighed less that would make him smaller and if Wladimir weighed less he'd be faster
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