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#131
Old 07-18-2012, 02:29 PM
Weebler I
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Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post
So you don't give Floyd credit for shutting out Marquez even though Marquez unofficially beat Pacquiao?

40 yr old Mosley was #5 P4P and the welterweight king at the time, coming off the Margarito destruction.
The point is, people wouldn't (and couldn't) say this stuff if Floyd had fought them at their preferred weight and in their prime.

Reality is, FMJ dragged old Marquez up two weights to where he had never fought before and then stole 2 pounds off him.

He also fought an old, past prime version of Mosley who rocked him before gassing.

The reason the Corrales win gets credit is because it was something approaching the best Corrales at his best weight. There aren't many FMJ fights you can say that about.
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#132
Old 07-18-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by The Weebler II View Post
The point is, people wouldn't (and couldn't) say this stuff if Floyd had fought them at their preferred weight and in their prime.

Reality is, FMJ dragged old Marquez up two weights to where he had never fought before and then stole 2 pounds off him.

He also fought an old, past prime version of Mosley who rocked him before gassing.

The reason the Corrales win gets credit is because it was something approaching the best Corrales at his best weight. There aren't many FMJ fights you can say that about.
Like I said yesterday your logic is like pissing in your pants and blaming your pants. Floyd, pre ODH, wasn't in position to refuse fights.

Like Kosta, The big earners didn't want to fight floyd. Kosta could of fought floyd, but he took the easier fight. It just didn't work out for him.
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#133
Old 07-18-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
in post 107 you brought up ali not being favored against foreman, so I asked what fighter was floyd not the favorite to beat that he avoided? You haven't answered that yet.

You asked for floyd to fight a dangerous fight, and hinted that dangerous is someone he wouldn't be the favorite against.

SO I'm simply trying to figure out who are the dangerous opponents that floyd hasn't fought. Hopefully, you hold all fighters to this standard.

Trinidad lost to a better fighter, he wasn't overrated. There aren't any better fighters than floyd at or near his weight right now.
Well when Floyd was retired there was cotto and margarito for starters and SSM, he only fought Cotto and SSM very recently and not when he should have.

Just cos Floyd is favourite he still has to fight. Pac is favourite against everyone at WW as well against everyone apart from maybe against FLoyd. But the difference is Pac fights regularly and dont take rests.
If floyd is favourite against Pac, it is cos FLoyd is overated so dont boast about Floyd being favourite.

Last edited by hugh grant; 07-18-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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#134
Old 07-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Weebler I
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Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
Floyd, pre ODH, wasn't in position to refuse fights.
Yes, and he took on better fights. Since then it's been minimising risk and maximising profit.

This is okay with you and I don't really care either but when it comes to discussions on legacy people aren't going to sugar-coat the truth.

Quote:
Like Kosta, The big earners didn't want to fight floyd. Kosta could of fought floyd, but he took the easier fight. It just didn't work out for him.
If a fighter is willing to travel to his opponent's backyard you'll find most fights can be made but FMJ isn't about legacy, he's about maximum profits for minimum risk.

For that reason I don't know why you bother with these threads, it's clear what he's done in the second half of his career and the first half doesn't put him up with the very best.
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#135
Old 07-18-2012, 02:47 PM
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People leave out so many facts just to down fighters. Arum wanted options and to extend PBF on Top Rank for those fights and PBF didn't want that hence no fights. It was about more than just a career high payday. hey but what is the whole story when you can chop important pieces off to fit your agenda.

The fight with Kosta really only had one chance to happen. Kosta had been out hurt for like 2 years. When he came back he had a mandatory rematch with Shamba Mitchell then he had a choice of fighting PBF or Hatton and chose Hatton because that was the bigger money fight the rest is history.

There are 2 sides to the equation and every fight not happening at the best time is not always 100% PBF fault like many like to make it seem.
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#136
Old 07-18-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Weebler II View Post
The point is, people wouldn't (and couldn't) say this stuff if Floyd had fought them at their preferred weight and in their prime.

Reality is, FMJ dragged old Marquez up two weights to where he had never fought before and then stole 2 pounds off him.

He also fought an old, past prime version of Mosley who rocked him before gassing.

The reason the Corrales win gets credit is because it was something approaching the best Corrales at his best weight. There aren't many FMJ fights you can say that about.
Thing is, fights rarely happen under the best conditions for both fighters. Oscar fought an old Whitaker above his best weight, Hopkins at a catchweight, made Floyd and Pac move up. Pac fought Cotto and Margarito at catch weights, made Marquez move up, made Bradley move up, fought a washed up Mosley, etc. Leonard fought a post-prime Hagler and made Duran move up.

You can say that about many fighters in history.
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#137
Old 07-18-2012, 02:49 PM
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everyone of floyd's wins is the same thing someone finding something to cry about, some people knock the corrales win saying he was drained at the weight they knock his Castillo win by saying yea he beat him the second time but he lost the first time.

fact is when floyd retires none of this will matter only the facts ,only person i believe Floyd should've fought was cotto after shane that's my only knock on floyd that would've been a huge fight.
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#138
Old 07-18-2012, 02:52 PM
The Big Dunn
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Originally Posted by The Weebler II View Post
Yes, and he took on better fights. Since then it's been minimising risk and maximising profit.

This is okay with you and I don't really care either but when it comes to discussions on legacy people aren't going to sugar-coat the truth.



If a fighter is willing to travel to his opponent's backyard you'll find most fights can be made but FMJ isn't about legacy, he's about maximum profits for minimum risk.

For that reason I don't know why you bother with these threads, it's clear what he's done in the second half of his career and the first half doesn't put him up with the very best.
SO when you are evaluating legacy, please factor in that Shane, prime ODH and Kosta could only happen IF THEY WANTED IT TO.

You travel where the money is. Floyd did that when he wasn't the money and stopped when he was. How could you possibly hold that against him?

At the end of the day, people like you who float crap like Cortez cost ricky a win are not going to fairly evaluate floyd's legacy anyway.
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#139
Old 07-18-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post
Thing is, fights rarely happen under the best conditions for both fighters. Oscar fought an old Whitaker above his best weight, Hopkins at a catchweight, made Floyd and Pac move up. Pac fought Cotto and Margarito at catch weights, made Marquez move up, made Bradley move up, fought a washed up Mosley, etc. Leonard fought a post-prime Hagler and made Duran move up.

You can say that about many fighters in history.
Agree with all that.

However, don't you think it's odd FMJ could take on the best at their best in the first half of his career yet not in the second when everyone wants to fight him?

It's whatever, but in discussions about legacy these things are going to come up.

As fight fans we know the guys who are ready to take on almost anyone at their best, the likes of Froch, Cotto and Marquez etc.
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#140
Old 07-18-2012, 02:57 PM
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lol,at knocking the hatton and mosley fights when both called him out in the ring and both were top 10pfp fighters hatton had a better win than bradley,lopez and duran when they jumped up to 147.
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