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#1
Old 07-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Bushbaby
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Default The difference between simple elite & business elite, in my opinion however unpopular

Ok, 2 elite fighters. Floyd Mayweather & Andre Ward. Both are indeed elite fighters & both are very good. But there is an obvious difference between the 2 fighters. Floyd is business elite & Ward is simply elite.

Right now there are rumors that Floyd may be fighting Amir Kahn at 147. Most Floyd fans & probably fight fans in general seem ok with this fight. But the fact is that Khan has not ever fought at 147 & there are fighters that deserve a fight with Floyd more than he does & those fighters probably will never be considered opponents for Floyd because they do not draw.

Meanwhile Ward will be fighting Dawson next Dawson is the recognized best fighter at 175. Yes they are fighting at 168, but the fight is between the 2 best fighters of there respective weight classes. There are some that call the fight boring. There are some that say the fight does not deserve it's 1 show 24/7. But this fight is between the 2 best fighters of a weight class separated by a weight class.

It is relatively safe to assume, or presume that you cannot say that there is a better fighter at 168 than Dawson. In stark contrast you cannot say the same about Khan at 147. There are fighters there right now ranked higher, with better welterweight wins over an undeserving Khan.

The difference between Ward & Floyd is that Floyd can fight whoever & put it on ppv, while Ward has to struggle to get draws, even if he's fighting the best fighters in the world. And for some reason, pfp will see Floyd as the better fighter even if it is Ward that's fighting the better fighters of the 2.
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#2
Old 07-13-2012, 01:35 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushbaby View Post
Ok, 2 elite fighters. Floyd Mayweather & Andre Ward. Both are indeed elite fighters & both are very good. But there is an obvious difference between the 2 fighters. Floyd is business elite & Ward is simply elite.

Right now there are rumors that Floyd may be fighting Amir Kahn at 147. Most Floyd fans & probably fight fans in general seem ok with this fight. But the fact is that Khan has not ever fought at 147 & there are fighters that deserve a fight with Floyd more than he does & those fighters probably will never be considered opponents for Floyd because they do not draw.

Meanwhile Ward will be fighting Dawson next Dawson is the recognized best fighter at 175. Yes they are fighting at 168, but the fight is between the 2 best fighters of there respective weight classes. There are some that call the fight boring. There are some that say the fight does not deserve it's 1 show 24/7. But this fight is between the 2 best fighters of a weight class separated by a weight class.

It is relatively safe to assume, or presume that you cannot say that there is a better fighter at 168 than Dawson. In stark contrast you cannot say the same about Khan at 147. There are fighters there right now ranked higher, with better welterweight wins over an undeserving Khan.

The difference between Ward & Floyd is that Floyd can fight whoever & put it on ppv, while Ward has to struggle to get draws, even if he's fighting the best fighters in the world. And for some reason, pfp will see Floyd as the better fighter even if it is Ward that's fighting the better fighters of the 2.
While I respect your opinion you leave out some things.

1. Floyd and Ward are at different points in their careers.

2. Your view of the ward/dawson is slanted to fit your agenda. Ward is fighting Dawson because HBO is trying to build the next great US superstar. This is a money fight for both. Both fighters have good opponenets at their respective weights.

3. Floyd can't fight whoever on ppv. He has to sell his usual numbers. Its like Jayz talking about selling 5 mil and no longer being able to put out music like Common.

Ward doesn't have that pressure on him. Ward can fight anyone he wants in Oakland because he sells there.

I agree there are ww fighters who would seem to pose more of a threat. But who? You didn't mention anyone.

Those that see floyd as p4p #1 do so based on his career to this point. In their last few fights, ward has fought better fighters. But if we go back the last 15 fights, well its not a discussion. But lately its been ward.

I think you have some valid points but you forget that no matter what era, the bottom line in boxing has always been making money. It used to be just asses in seats. Then TV ratings were added. Now its those and ppv sales. The guys that sell the most have more choice and control over their opponents.

But that control, in floyd's case, was earned through fighting tough fights on the way up and taking full advantage of the ODH opportunity.
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#3
Old 07-13-2012, 01:38 PM
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Name 1 147 bigger than Khan or even clearly superior~ excluding Top Rank guys.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushbaby View Post
It is relatively safe to assume, or presume that you cannot say that there is a better fighter at 168 than Dawson.
Whoa slow down man. Don't forget Froch beat the guy who beat Dawson. Also Dirrell is more skilled than Dawson IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gambler1981 View Post
Name 1 147 bigger than Khan or even clearly superior~ excluding Top Rank guys.
Bradley is clearly superior.
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#5
Old 07-13-2012, 01:54 PM
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Floyd and Pacquiao can fight all the 140 pounders they want. Floyd isn't that big. And who exactly at 147 is more deservering than khan? Looking at the ring 147 pound rankings, I see Kell Brook, Malignaggi, Zavck, Baily, Lopez, Aydin. Really? You rather see Floyd fight those guys over Khan? Bradley isn't going to happen because of Top Rank.
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#6
Old 07-13-2012, 01:57 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post
Whoa slow down man. Don't forget Froch beat the guy who beat Dawson. Also Dirrell is more skilled than Dawson IMO.


Bradley is clearly superior.
How is Bradley superior to Khan right now? Beating Casamayor and Manny( which IMO he didn't really win)?
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#7
Old 07-13-2012, 02:00 PM
The Gambler1981
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Originally Posted by Light_Speed View Post


Bradley is clearly superior.
1) Did I not clearly state excluding Top Rank fighters~

2) I don't think Bradley is clearly better he is just a different sort of fighter. I see very good but still flawed fighters when I look at both of them.
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#8
Old 07-13-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
How is Bradley superior to Khan right now? Beating Casamayor and Manny( which IMO he didn't really win)?
He was competitive against Pac, Khan went life and death with Peterson.
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#9
Old 07-13-2012, 02:01 PM
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Khan beats Floyd.
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#10
Old 07-13-2012, 02:05 PM
KnockUTheFukOut
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It is only 1 ELITE FIGHTER in boxing today...that is Floyd Mayweather...the rest are GOOD but has so many FLAWS

Ward has ELITE POTENTIAL, at good win over Dawson would really put him up their and that puts him Top 3 P4P with NO ARGUMENT available for even his HATERS

ELITE to me is fighters who are COMPLETE! Can basically DO IT ALL IN THE RING...don't label a fighter ELITE when he has no fukin defense, can't fight inside to save his life and can't even make adjustments during the fight, can't cut the ring off and keeps getting caught with the same damn punch for 12 Rounds

Chad Dawson is another guy I think has Elite Abilities in the Ring, it is nothing he can't do PHYSICALLY, but sometimes he seems to go off track a little Mentally and take rounds off especially when he is clearly dominating, instead of keeping his foot on the Gas Peddle and going for the Finish, but he can fight inside, outside, can cut the ring off, has a jab, has excellent reflex, and good defense

Call me Bias but I think Rigondeaux has that Ability as well, as does Chemito Moreno...basically a lot of the guys who the Dumb Casuals think are "BORING" lol

Last edited by KnockUTheFukOut; 07-13-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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