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View Poll Results: So who's better??
Obviously Chavez. 28 43.75%
For reasons I cannot specify ginger. 36 56.25%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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#31
Old 07-01-2012, 12:00 PM
purecyse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2120 View Post
based on who they fought i would say chavez jr is better

If canelo was such a technical fighter he would have been able to do what cotto did to alfonso gomez

gomez was frustrating the great technical boxer that is canelo and won on a very weak stoppage

but gomez against the flawed boxer/puncher that is cotto he is getting schooled

people over rate canelo abilities. what i keep hearing when they over rate his abilities is the word "potential"

based on his victories over j.cotto, m.hatton, r.rhodes, and shane there is no potential growth with this guy. each one of those fights were showcase fights in which he was suppose to win at the latest mid round ko, tko stoppage but he didnt
He was beating Shane from pillar to post.

Anyway, if Chavez Jr. was so good it wouldn't have taken him the same amount of rounds to put down Lee as it took Vera FOUR YEARS AGO.

If Chavez Jr. was so good it the fight with Rubio wouldn't have went to a decision. Rubio is a sucker for getting stopped every couple of years.

If Chavez Jr. was so good, why did he have to have a majority decision against a Zbik ****ing Felix ****ing Sturm WALKED THROUGH? Isn't "walking through" opponents what Chavez's do?

I wouldn't base too much on victories. Shane Mosley looks better on his record that any name on Chavez's to date, IF we're going purely on names.
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#32
Old 07-01-2012, 12:00 PM
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I agree with what you say, Bushbaby, but I like Canelo best anyway. I like Chavez to. He is a powerhouse. I think they are both getting better with every fight.
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#33
Old 07-01-2012, 12:03 PM
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Canelo has far many more tools.

Chavez makes far better use of his.
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#34
Old 07-01-2012, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by savorduhflavor View Post
The point is that you don't need similar levels of competition to assess skill sets.

Canelo is more skilled than Jr. and it's clear as day, the competition argument is completely irrelevant.
I disagree. If that's the case why can't we discern skill from shadow boxing?? Or hitting the heavy bag??
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#35
Old 07-01-2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savorduhflavor View Post
The point is that you don't need similar levels of competition to assess skill sets.

Canelo is more skilled than Jr. and it's clear as day, the competition argument is completely irrelevant.
If this was the case, Prince Hamed, Cory Spinks & Jermain Taylor are all top 5 ATG.
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#36
Old 07-01-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MalikKnucklez View Post
If this was the case, Prince Hamed is top 5 ATG.
That makes no sense. If you know anything about boxing you can see skills and deficiencies in fighters even if they're not fighting top comp.

Just cause Hamed was knocking guys out left and right doesn't mean you watched him fight and saw him as incredibly skilled. Or at least I never did.

And it's especially irrelevant in this case as the comp that Jr. and Alvarez have fought are not that far off from each other.
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#37
Old 07-01-2012, 12:18 PM
MalikKnucklez
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Originally Posted by savorduhflavor View Post
That makes no sense. If you know anything about boxing you can see skills and deficiencies in fighters even if they're not fighting top comp.

Just cause Hamed was knocking guys out left and right doesn't mean you watched him fight and saw him as incredibly skilled. Or at least I never did.

And it's especially irrelevant in this case as the comp that Jr. and Alvarez have fought are not that far off from each other.
I know plenty about boxing. Enough to know that level of competition can drastically affect how you look in the ring. One of the marquee assets a technically-proficient fighter can possess is the ability to adapt, especially when having one of his bigger tools neutralized. You're not gonna see that against tomato cans. Watching Chavez progress and maneuver the way he has, especially in his last three fights against very formidable opponents, says alot about his ring savvy. He doesn't need to have lightning hand & foot speed to be technically sound.

That was my point in bringing up Hamed. I never said Hamed was Sugar Ray Leonard.
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#38
Old 07-01-2012, 12:23 PM
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Good to see Chavez gaining on ginger. I cannot believe that ginger is ahead y beating shot fighters & cans. Bute had this amazing skillset, then along came Froch.
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#39
Old 07-01-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purecyse View Post
He was beating Shane from pillar to post.

Anyway, if Chavez Jr. was so good it wouldn't have taken him the same amount of rounds to put down Lee as it took Vera FOUR YEARS AGO.

If Chavez Jr. was so good it the fight with Rubio wouldn't have went to a decision. Rubio is a sucker for getting stopped every couple of years.

If Chavez Jr. was so good, why did he have to have a majority decision against a Zbik ****ing Felix ****ing Sturm WALKED THROUGH? Isn't "walking through" opponents what Chavez's do?

I wouldn't base too much on victories. Shane Mosley looks better on his record that any name on Chavez's to date, IF we're going purely on names.
but you dont go purely on names on a resume. you go by were that name was at the time it got on canelo resume. by the time canelo got mosely on his resume the year is 2012 and shane has not won a fight since 2009

zbik and rubio careers dont compare to shane.

so historically shane is cleary better fighter than those two but that does not change the fact that zbik, rubio victories are better wins than a win over an old mosely in 2012.

now to a casual fan a victory over mosely looks better but since we are at boxingscene i would have to assume most if not all here are not casual fans so that argument is mute.

my critique of canelo does not instantly mean that i think chavez jr is leagues above him. they are in same league but chavez jr is slightly better. because he has fought better comp while canelo has not
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#40
Old 07-01-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bushbaby View Post
Good to see Chavez gaining on ginger. I cannot believe that ginger is ahead y beating shot fighters & cans. Bute had this amazing skillset, then along came Froch.
Bute, even before the Froch fight lacked a right hand, infighting and always seemed uncomfortable taking the initiative because his game was solely to counter punch. He didn't have much of an arsenal at all. Canelo has shown far more than Bute man. There was nothing amazing about Bute, or good to say the least.
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